Was Jesus born again?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are avoiding explanation of the texts as well as responding to my question as to whether or not you believe Jesus made us righteous. My view has NOTHING to do with Calvinism. You are looking awfully Pelagian.

Oh no.. a Pelagian... free will.. No I would be semi pelagian which historically is the position of the church.

depends on what is meant by "made." He considers us righteous by walking by faith and he confers upon us blessings of his atonement by doing so.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Oh no.. a Pelagian... free will.. No I would be semi pelagian which historically is the position of the church.

depends on what is meant by "made." He considers us righteous by walking by faith and he confers upon us blessings of his atonement by doing so.

Man cannot attain salvation in any possible way shape or manner apart from imputation of the righteousness of Christ. And if Adam did not impute sin to us then neither did Christ impute righteousness to us. We stand righteous without having done one good work when we are saved.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

John 3?

I already pointed out Acts 13 was speaking about the resurrection, not Jesus repenting of his sins and being born again, filled with the Holy Ghost etc etc

Who said Acts 13 was speaking of Jesus repenting of his sins? Please tell me what Acts 13 is saying as to Christ being begotten over 33 years after He was begotten in incarnation. If I did not get the answer yet I guess I won;'t hold my breath this time.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Thats the million dollar question...


great points

Thanks.

Mike is making resurrection equal to born again. It's not. If it was then none of us are born again yet

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Who said Acts 13 was speaking of Jesus repenting of his sins? Please tell me what Acts 13 is saying as to Christ being begotten over 33 years after He was begotten in incarnation. If I did not get the answer yet I guess I won;'t hold my breath this time.

not me nor you. that is my point. You are equating resurrection to born again.

The topic is born again in Jn 3 not resurrection in Acts 13

That is the original point I am making. You are confusing two separate things simply because the same word is used.

[mfblume]

Jesus was born again by virtue of the fact that we had to unite to His experience in order to be likewise born again. Our repentance, baptism and Spirit infilling only applies new birth to us that He experienced in rising from the grave to make atonement. It's like saying Jesus had to be baptized in water instead of dying on the cross if we have to be baptized to say otherwise. Our water baptism is united to His death and burial. So no one would think He had to be water baptized instead of slain on the cross just because we do! BY the same token His resurrection from the grave is being begotten of the Father FROM DEATH -- firstborn FROM THE DEAD. If we was BORN from the dead and BEGOTTEN as part of that experience as well, for people to say He was NOT BORN AGAIN is absurd.

He was BORN FROM THE DEAD, folks. He was BORN OF MARY as well. That shows TWO BIRTHS! But all the while He did NONE of those things because of His personal need as you are trying to force my position to say.

We see integrally different forms of BIRTH in our own first and second birth. From the womb and from the Spirit. Why can you not see the same thing with Jesus who was BORN of Mary and firstBORN from the dead?

[Praxeas]

Was Jesus born again?

No, he did not need to

Jesus didn't need to die either but he did. Jesus was born again though he did not need to

So did Jesus repent of His sins?

Well obviously Jesus did not have any sins so Jesus did not need to repent, so the answer is no

*confused*

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Jesus was born again by virtue of the fact that we had to unite to His experience in order to be likewise born again. Our repentance, baptism and Spirit infilling only applies new birth to us that He experienced in rising from the grave to make atonement. It's like saying Jesus had to be baptized in water instead of dying on the cross if we have to be baptized to say otherwise. Our water baptism is united to His death and burial. So no one would think He had to be water baptized instead of slain on the cross just because we do! BY the same token His resurrection from the grave is being begotten of the Father FROM DEATH -- firstborn FROM THE DEAD. If we was BORN from the dead and BEGOTTEN as part of that experience as well, for people to say He was NOT BORN AGAIN is absurd.

He was BORN FROM THE DEAD, folks. He was BORN OF MARY as well. That shows TWO BIRTHS! But all the while He did NONE of those things because of His personal need as you are trying to force my position to say.

We see integrally different forms of BIRTH in our own first and second birth. From the womb and from the Spirit. Why can you not see the same thing with Jesus who was BORN of Mary and firstBORN from the dead?

Jn 3:5 is not speaking of being resurrected.

You are making a classic hermeneutical mistake by seeing a word and making it mean the same thing every time it is used.

Jesus was also born of mary by Divine intervention, was he born again then? No because Jn 3 is NOT talking about THAT. It's NOT talking about being resurrected

Was Jesus "born again" according to Jn 3? Was he born of the water and the Spirit according to Jn 3? IF the answer is yes then he was unregenerated according to you

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

not me nor you. that is my point. You are equating resurrection to born again.

The topic is born again in Jn 3 not resurrection in Acts 13

That is the original point I am making. You are confusing two separate things simply because the same word is used.

Well, then, tell me how Acts 13 is a different thing but yet uses the term BEGOTTEN? I asked you that many times over already. If Acts 13 is not saying what I claim it is, then for goodness'sakes tell me what IT IS saying.

While you're at it, tell me why Christ is said to be firstBORN from the dead after having been BORN of Mary.

I contend that John 3 applies to OUR SIDE OF THE NEW BIRTH, not His. Acts 13 shows us HIS SIDE of the new birth.

Funny how BORN and BEGOTTEN are both associated with the cross and resurrection of Jesus as well as our salvation. You at LEAST have to admit He was BORN in sorts from the grave as well as BEGOTTEN in the same experience. Whether that connects to US is another issue, which I think is obvious that it DOES connect.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Was Jesus born again?

No, he did not need to

Jesus didn't need to die either but he did. Jesus was born again though he did not need to

So did Jesus repent of His sins?

Well obviously Jesus did not have any sins so Jesus did not need to repent, so the answer is no

*confused*

Sounds like he is saying we go through the same thing spiritually when we are born again that JEsus did when he experienced the resurrection.. another words birth of the Spirit is the same as his resurrection..


that is what it sounds like but I don't know