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  #81  
Old 04-19-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
The resolution does NOT seek to promote or approve it. It seeks to "de-legalize" using it for outreach

Prax.....

And that's where it stops, eh?
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  #82  
Old 04-19-2007, 09:23 AM
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Prax.....

And that's where it stops, eh?
What if it does NOT pass?
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  #83  
Old 04-19-2007, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HappyPastor2 View Post
I do think that the term is a slam - based on the context in which you (not soley you) continually use it. It seems humerous to some that someone who has spent many years in an organization, gave to it, invested heavily in it and has loved it now feels compelled to leave it - not because he has changed - but because the stance of the organization is changing. What you seem to call ultra conservative was once the norm across much of our country in the UPCI. I know of one presbyter that some people consider to be ultra conservative that is one of the most balanced people that I know.

While the articles of faith have not changed substantially in recent years the attitude of some of our constituency toward what is written there is mere contempt and the enforcement of the articles in line with our written general constitution is almost never pursued by those elected to do so.

The man of whom you write (if I am correct) has given much over many years to see many souls saved and many churches started. I know of one pastor for whom he recently bought, renovated and furnished a church building. It is a shame to lose someone like that.

Maybe you would think me ultra conservative. I think the use of television in Apostolic Pentecostal homes is the recipe for disaster in our movement. Generally, those who have it do not even see how utterly worldly they have become. Many of those behind resolution #6 last year are merely trying to justify where they are already at in their compromise. I think that the use many of the video games that I've seen UPC kids and young people involved in as an extreme compromise, I don't wear short-sleeve shirts, I wear only white shirts when preaching, I still believe it is wrong for a Christian woman to cut her hair and fpr a Christian man not to cut his. However, I also despise when preachers preach standards with a bittery acid-like spirit.

I've read enough to know how the term ultra-con is used in a way to demean, rather than praise. While some men ought to be blamed for rabid preaching (which is not holiness), most of those I've seen harangued on AFF are good men and not deserving of the venom spewed here.

I've read some good things that you've written, but I've seen you tend more toward the ranting about people or groups of people painted with a broad brush. You are clearly a bright person. Not many Apostolics would even know who Praxeas was. It is clear that you study the Word, but it would be nice to see you use your talents toward building people up, rather than tearing them down.

I am not trying to judge or condemn; I certainly don't mean it that way. I have friends that are more conservative than me in some respects and others that are more liberal than be in many respects, but we are all still friends. I believe in truth, holiness and UNITY. I do not believe however that we can sacrifice truth (including holiness) for unity - nor can we sacrifice unity for truth. We need both. I don't think that trying to openly label people as liberal, conservative or ultra conservative is beneficial. It only seems to serve to divide the body. Our Articles of Faith in the UPCI have been the core of belief that we decided we could AGREE upon - and we must agree if we are to walk together (Amos 3:3).

The continual assault of the Articles of Faith and General Constitution of our organization by elements that would like to substantially change the direction of the UPCI with regard to television and other issues is tending to the disunity of the body. That it has gone on with such unchecked fervency to the point where it makes good men wish to walk away from all that they've held dear in the organization is a sad day. But then, I would suspect that your opinion will differ from mine. Avieu.

A post worthy of bumping.

Thanks, HP2!
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  #84  
Old 04-19-2007, 09:41 AM
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warrior81680 warrior81680 is offline
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Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind View Post
What if it does NOT pass?
First, someone please help me with the multiquote button. I can't understand how to put both quotes in my reply. Thanks!

Second, if it does not pass, my guess is the next 3 months following the thumbs down vote will detail an incredible lack of unity and a settling out. It's possible we may have a change at the top of our leadership before the vote, so it is very hard to gauge at the moment.

You got an idea, BOOMM?
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  #85  
Old 04-19-2007, 11:26 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
Prax.....

And that's where it stops, eh?
That's called a slippery slope logical fallacy. Maybe we should preach against radio and internet too if that is the case.
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  #86  
Old 04-19-2007, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
First, someone please help me with the multiquote button. I can't understand how to put both quotes in my reply. Thanks!

Second, if it does not pass, my guess is the next 3 months following the thumbs down vote will detail an incredible lack of unity and a settling out. It's possible we may have a change at the top of our leadership before the vote, so it is very hard to gauge at the moment.

You got an idea, BOOMM?
Multi quote works if you hit the multi quote in the first post you want to quote and then quote in the second post.

Ideas? Many who were strongly in favor now state the flaws I saw in Resolution #6 and state they are now opposed to the idea.

We can postulate and post all year long, but those in attendance at Tampa surely will need to have sought God prior to a vote. Emotions and popularity contests need be shelved for the sake of unity.

I have been in meetings of few preachers with many elections. No divine intervention to hand out an office. National elections have implications that only last for a few years as the man moves on or the Brethern elect someone else. Resolutions and Amendments to By-laws are long term and should not be taken lightly at all.
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  #87  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:27 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind View Post
Multi quote works if you hit the multi quote in the first post you want to quote and then quote in the second post.

Ideas? Many who were strongly in favor now state the flaws I saw in Resolution #6 and state they are now opposed to the idea.

We can postulate and post all year long, but those in attendance at Tampa surely will need to have sought God prior to a vote. Emotions and popularity contests need be shelved for the sake of unity.

I have been in meetings of few preachers with many elections. No divine intervention to hand out an office. National elections have implications that only last for a few years as the man moves on or the Brethern elect someone else. Resolutions and Amendments to By-laws are long term and should not be taken lightly at all.
I categorically reject the notion that unity can only be achieved through caving in to the whims of the men who oppose this resolution. It seems as though you are saying those in favor of the resolution are anti-unity and those opposed are pro-unity.

That seems to be the tactic that will be in play from now until GC. Vote against it, or you are an anti unity rebellious organization hater.

Perposterous!
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  #88  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:27 PM
Straightline Straightline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
The resolution does NOT seek to promote or approve it. It seeks to "de-legalize" using it for outreach
Prax: Is your pastor "for" using it for outreach?


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Straightline
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  #89  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
I categorically reject the notion that unity can only be achieved through caving in to the whims of the men who oppose this resolution. It seems as though you are saying those in favor of the resolution are anti-unity and those opposed are pro-unity.

That seems to be the tactic that will be in play from now until GC. Vote against it, or you are an anti unity rebellious organization hater.

Perposterous!

Why not, it is exactly the line we have heard before from the other camp? even at events with a large audience said to command change from many.

That those opposed to worldliness in the church aka Television are not in favor of unity.

This issue seems to have been settled in 1950.



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  #90  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:46 PM
chaotic_resolve chaotic_resolve is offline
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The UPC will most likely have a split in the next 5 years anyway, so why not get it out of the way now.

Why do neocons feel the need to dictate their ultra con standards and doctrine to ~everyone~ in the organization? Why must ~everyone~ follow their standards or go to hell?

It irritates me that neocons are this way. They can't just be content to be who they are. They have this ridiculous mission to try and change everyone to think and follow how they do.

This shouldn't even be up for debate or vote at Conference. This should be an issue each individual church chooses or not for themselves.

Neocons ask "where will it end?" if the television resolution is passed . . . the real question should be "where will it end?" if this resolution isn't passed. What's next? Are the neocons going to become emboldened and try to pass more resolutions dictating what standards of dress are or are not acceptable.

Will wedding rings and watches be next up for a resolution banning the use or wearing? What about colored dress shirts on the platform?

Sounds ridiculous, but it's a neocon dream.

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