Why do folks have a silly notion about being UPC only if licenced?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Abigail,
I've been in UPC for 22 years and my husband 30. He just walked in and I asked him for verification - "Yes, it has been preached as a heaven or hell issue".

Thank you~ Some here want it look as if I or others here on this forum just thought this stuff up! I stated in my own post here, my husband and I while we were UPCI, lic we did teach and preach it as heaven or hell. I know of many pastors who taught it as such and still do.


UPC’s Legalistic Dress Code

Please Note: By challenging UPC’s dress code (among other things) we are not saying that women are free to wear revealing and\or provocative clothes to church or at any other time. It is far from decent or seemly for a woman who has committed her life to Jesus Christ to dress herself the way that so many women do today. See How Should Christian Women Dress?


Anyone can say that God has revealed something to them. In fact, that is precisely what the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. have done. They claim that God has revealed things to them that go above and beyond what the scriptures actually say.

Scriptures alone are the sole authority on the truth. Not your pastor, not the UPC, only the Book. Only the Apostles had the authority to pronounce doctrine. What the UPC has done is exactly what the Pharisees and all the legalists of Jesus' day did. They have created laws to live by that are not laws of God, but of man. This is why Jesus said that they do worship God uselessly for they obey the commands of men, not of God. He said they lay heavy burdens of oppression on the people and hinder them from serving God.

As soon as someone starts saying that God has told him or her something that is not backed up by the Bible, they are lying, whether intentionally or not. Your pastor is free to believe whatever he wishes, but when he starts requiring church members to follow an invented doctrine, or worse, telling them that they will go to hell if they don't, then he is out of line and will be held accountable for it by God.

Pray and go to the scriptures to find out what to believe, instead of going to the scriptures to prove what you have already decided to believe.

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/unit...al_church.html

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I did not make the statement as Cupcake quoted it. I did NOT say "it is NOT preached as heaven or hell." If you want to respond to my post, then go back to my actual post and read it.

You didn't read what I said as well you asked what proof did I have about this and I said in my post~

(In fact we use to teach it as such, we lived it).

[MissBrattified]

It is possible for things to change, you know. It is possible that 10 or 15 years ago things were different than they are now.

Your experiences as a teenager or member of the UPCI may be different than what young people and young families are experiencing now. I am not saying that you're not telling the truth; however, show me the same courtesy. I'm not lying either. It is possible for both sides to exist.

Look up the word: Dichotomy.

It is obvious that there is a faction of the UPCI that is death on television usage, and probably have the same staunch stance on standards. However, I have to say "probably", because I haven't actually attended their churches and heard them preach so I can't say for sure. The ones I've attended, and whose pastors/ministers I've actually heard preach have not preached heaven or hell standards.

Again, I'm just saying that my experience has been different than yours. I really don't understand why that's difficult for you to comprehend. My negative experiences have been with members of the AMF (whatever the name is now), and Independent churches.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CupCake

You didn't read what I said as well you asked what proof did I have about this and I said in my post~

(In fact we use to teach it as such, we lived it).

Did I ask what proof you had? I don't remember asking that question....

Oh yes...what I asked for was proof that it was stated by UPCI ministers on THIS forum.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I did not make the statement as Cupcake quoted it. I did NOT say "it is NOT preached as heaven or hell."

Ok lets make this real easy then, is the issue of outward dress taught or believed as salvation, Heaven or hell ! A sign someone is right with God, their sign they have God in them, one of us.


It's easy yes or no?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CupCake

Ok lets make this real easy then, is the issue of outward dress taught or believed as salvation, Heaven or hell ! A sign someone is right with God, their sign they have God in them, one of us.

Taught or believed as salvation, Heaven or hell...where? By whom? Not in my church.

It is certainly not taught as a sign that someone is "right with God", or is one of us.

It's easy yes or no?

Its not a simple yes or no, because I'm not the UPCI spokeswoman. I can only speak from my experience, and in my experience the answer is NO, but being the fair-minded individual I am, I have already conceded that your experience is obviously different than mine.

So what are you looking for exactly? I'm just looking for a fair shake, and a nod to my integrity as a Christian, that I wouldn't be dishonest in this conversation. I wouldn't say that my church doesn't teach that, if they really did. *shrug*

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It is possible for things to change, you know. It is possible that 10 or 15 years ago things were different than they are now.

Your experiences as a teenager or member of the UPCI may be different than what young people and young families are experiencing now. I am not saying that you're not telling the truth; however, show me the same courtesy. I'm not lying either. It is possible for both sides to exist.

Look up the word: Dichotomy.

It is obvious that there is a faction of the UPCI that is death on television usage, and probably have the same staunch stance on standards. However, I have to say "probably", because I haven't actually attended their churches and heard them preach so I can't say for sure. The ones I've attended, and whose pastors/ministers I've actually heard preach have not preached heaven or hell standards.

Again, I'm just saying that my experience has been different than yours. I really don't understand why that's difficult for you to comprehend. My negative experiences have been with members of the AMF (whatever the name is now), and Independent churches.

I was a member at 18 - 37 . Not a lot has change in the true blue ranks. I still have friends/family within the church, it's still taught in their churches as such, heaven or hell.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CupCake

I was a member at 18 - 37 . Not a lot has change in the true blue ranks. I still have friends/family within the church, it's still taught in their churches as such, heaven or hell.

What is your point, CupCake? Are you trying to call me a liar? If you are, then come right out and make your accusation. I haven't called you a liar, or implied it in any way.

I've simply pointed out that your experiences aren't an accurate reflection of 100% of UPCI churches, because I attend a UPCI church, have UPCI friends, and know and attend other UPCI churches, and conferences, and I haven't had the same experiences you have.

Is there some reason why it is difficult for you to believe that such a difference could exist?

Would you like to call my pastor and ask him directly? Would you like to order the tapes from our last 6 months of services? How about from our most recent Sunday School seminars and campmeetings?

MissBrattified

However, please feel free to point me to the post by a UPCI minister on this forum who has stated that UPCI standards as they are presented in the Manual are heaven or hell issues

I never said anything about the Manual, you did. I said many on here do believe it's heaven or hell.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CupCake

MissBrattified...I never said anything about the Manual, you did. I said many on here do believe it's heaven or hell.

And I asked you which ones. Simple as that.