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[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Eld. Epley, according to what you know the Bible teaches, do the Samaritans in the Bible qualify as Jews? Do they qualify as Semites?

Rather than a simple “yes” or “no,” please explain the reasons why you believe as you do on these questions.

Thanks!

Some of them would and some of them wouldn't. That is as simple as I can make it. Remember the woman at the well was a Samaritan and she had a bucket but Moab was God's wash pot in that light since Ruth came from Moab met her kinsmans in the barley field remember 7 good years and 7 bad years where they tore down their barns and built bigger and a blessing was poured out there was not room enough to recieve Simon tried to buy it with money but they would not sell lest there would not be enough so they went out into the highway and hedges to stand in and make up the gap. I hope that helps.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Some of them would and some of them wouldn't. That is as simple as I can make it. Remember the woman at the well was a Samaritan and she had a bucket but Moab was God's wash pot in that light since Ruth came from Moab met her kinsmans in the barley field remember 7 good years and 7 bad years where they tore down their barns and built bigger and a blessing was poured out there was not room enough to recieve Simon tried to buy it with money but they would not sell lest there would not be enough so they went out into the highway and hedges to stand in and make up the gap. I hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply. No, your answer really did not help much. You gave somewhat of an example, but it did not answer what I asked. You do realize that much of their population first descended from Israel, right? With that in mind, please give a detailed answer to this: do the Samaritans in the Bible qualify as Jews? Do they qualify as Semites?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Your brother in law is wrong that old rabbi out of the cave the preterists hunted high and low to find is right and all the other Jews are wrong. I read an article years ago that the Mogen David winemakers family were decendents of Levi? However that cave rabbi must know.

Eld. Epley, did you actually read what Pastor DTSalaz said about this man? He said his brother-in-law “BELIEVES” he is a descendant. Elder, if there is such a written lineage, wouldn't he know??

Also, Pastor DTSalaz gave enough reasons in his post to prove this man is biblically disqualified from being both Orthodox and a priest. Elder, he said he married a Christian. Think about it, Elder...this is EXACTLY what we keep bringing up about how these lineages are impure and therefore disqualified according to the Bible's criteria. You do realize that any child born to a mother who is NOT Jewish is NOT considered Jewish according to Orthodox Rabbinical rule?? So what will THAT do to THIS MAN'S lineage??

Besides, to date, no such lineage has ever been proven to exist. If it did, you can rest assured the Temple Institute would be using it. But if you check you will see that they are not. That alone should tell you that no such list exists.

Instead of wasting your time on wishful thinking, why not spend time in your Bible reading what it says about Jewish lineage and about what is required to be considered a biblical Jew??

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Your brother in law is wrong that old rabbi out of the cave the preterists hunted high and low to find is right and all the other Jews are wrong. I read an article years ago that the Mogen David winemakers family were decendents of Levi? However that cave rabbi must know.

Like I've said to you now MANY TIMES, there are MANY APOSTOLIC FUTURISTS who believe exactly as we do concerning Israel and lineage. When you slander us, you slander them as well.




Please, watch what you say. I guarantee some of these good futurist brethren are reading what you keep saying about them. There is little doubt that someday what you've said will catch up with you....

[TK Burk]

Eld. Epley?

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Thanks for the reply. No, your answer really did not help much. You gave somewhat of an example, but it did not answer what I asked. You do realize that much of their population first descended from Israel, right? With that in mind, please give a detailed answer to this: do the Samaritans in the Bible qualify as Jews? Do they qualify as Semites?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Check this out.
http://www.ancestry.com/learn/librar...x?article=4114

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Where does Timothy come into play

2Ti 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
Act 16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.


He had a Jewish mother and grandmother who instilled faith into him, however, his father was a gentile. Possibly taken by a greek roman soldier to be his wife resulting in a half breed still understanding the faith of his maternal ancestry.

Likewise what about all the northern ten tribes who still considered themselves Children of Abraham and Jacob although the Assyrians had dispersed them to many countries and had raped and also took many of the women to be their wives. There still remained an uncorrupted remnant as God had promised and a later return and restoration. Speaking of the Samaritan woman at the well she spoke of "Our Fathers". The Hebrews were first called Jews during the Babylonian captivity of the southern two tribes coming from the tribe of Judah from which the southern kingdom was named.

Joh 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Joh 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.


Are these Jews? They still come from The line of Shem, Noah's son, from whom came Abram and the Semites. That is why there is anti Semitism. Which goes past Abram to Shem and his descendants. Now through DNA testing we can tell from which area of the world we come from. They are now doing this for the blacks/African Americans so that they can trace their ancestry to a specific part of Africa. Even though they are all from Africa they can pinpoint the specific area they are from.

The DNA comes from the father. How great God works even when no one understood this in the past God orchestrated this within the 12 tribes of Israel. I believe that through this we can still find out which tribe within the 12 with pinpoint accuracy they are from.

Be blessed

Pastor DT Salaz

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Where does Timothy come into play

I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. The Evangelist Timothy while he was half Greek and half Jew, unless he was circumcised he wouldn't be able to enter the temple court of the Jews. Here is were being a doorkeeper held meaning in David's Psalm. Those who were a door keeper had the job of making sure that no uncircumcised Gentile gained entrance into the temple. While Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother, he would of been considered a half breed just like the Samaritans. Unless he underwent the conversion into Judaism. Timothy also would of been able to produce a correct registry of lineage concerning his grandmother’s and mother’s genealogy concerning their lineage. No, modern Jew alive today can prove that they are directly related to anyone in the Bible.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

2Ti 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
Act 16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.


He had a Jewish mother and grandmother who instilled faith into him, however, his father was a gentile. Possibly taken by a greek roman soldier to be his wife resulting in a half breed still understanding the faith of his maternal ancestry.

Why would it had to be a Greek soldier? In the first century Middle East Judah was a major trading port that catered to the Roman Empire.
There were also city that didn't have Hebrew names, but were renamed to have Greek names. Therefore Timothy's father could of been of quite a few different occupations. The maternal ancestry of Timothy would of easily been able to view and research prior to the Temple and City of Jerusalem's destruction. After the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, it became increasingly harder to find out who was related to who. Those who were in Babylonian captivity was only there for 70 years, now you have a people misplaced from the Middle East for over 2000 years? That is a great difference, and a major complexity when trying to prove who is a real Jew and who is descended to what tribe. The Samaritans were greatly disliked because they were half breeds and enemies to Judah. Jesus even told the Samaritan woman that her people didn't even know who they worshiped. Not only saying they were mixed up physically, but doctrinally. Jesus went on to say that salvation was of the Jews, meaning the Jews would have the Gospel given to the first and not last.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Likewise what about all the northern ten tribes who still considered themselves Children of Abraham and Jacob although the Assyrians had dispersed them to many countries and had raped and also took many of the women to be their wives. There still remained an uncorrupted remnant as God had promised and a later return and restoration.

Have you ever heard the term LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL?

Where are you getting your information from, please explain further.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Speaking of the Samaritan woman at the well she spoke of "Our Fathers". The Hebrews were first called Jews during the Babylonian captivity of the southern two tribes coming from the tribe of Judah from which the southern kingdom was named.

The tribe of Judah is preserved because that Messiah would come forth from Judah. Therefore the REMNANT of Judah was preserved in Babylon and brought back into the land of Judea so that Messiah would be born at the fulness of time, and made of a woman under the Law. Therefore in Ezra 2, the Jews had to be able to prove who they were and who they were related to. Jesus Himself was able to produce lineages from Mary and Joseph, one going back to Adam, and the other going back to Abraham. Jesus, Paul and the rest of the Jewish apostles could also produce the same proof of registry. No modern Jew can prove they are directly descended to anyone in the tribe of Judah. For over 2,000 years they have mingled their seed with every race.

It’s like saying myself being an Italian, can trace his roots back to Julius Caesar, or Romulus and Remus.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Joh 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Joh 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

You left off where Jesus answered here.

Joh 4:21-22

"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall NEITHER in this mountain, NOR YET AT JERUSALEM, worship the Father. Ye worship YE KNOW NOT WHAT: we KNOW what we worship: for salvation is OF THE JEWS."

Jesus told the woman that He was going to restore the nation of Israel and they would no longer be worshiping at a physical temple or mountain.

The worshipers worship the Father in Spirit in Truth.

Jesus also made sure to correct the woman and let her know that the Samaritans didn't even know who they worship. The Samaritans while they themselves believed they were still related to Jacob, the Jews felt that was impossible because lack of pedigree.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Are these Jews?

No, they're Samaritans. To be a Jew you had to be descended from Judah.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

They still come from The line of Shem, Noah's son, from whom came Abram and the Semites.

Semites don't have blonde hair and blue eyes.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

That is why there is anti Semitism.

How did racism come into this subject?

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Which goes past Abram to Shem and his descendants.

Excuse me, are you saying that anti-Semitism goes past the descendents of Shem? Wouldn't that be anti-Gentilism?

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Now through DNA testing we can tell from which area of the world we come from. They are now doing this for the blacks/African Americans so that they can trace their ancestry to a specific part of Africa. Even though they are all from Africa they can pinpoint the specific area they are from.

If you would do a little more research into this above issue you would find that it is not entirly true. A white man who was trying to find his lineage using DNA found that he had black relatives. DNA, while it may work in police work and court cases, is not 100% when it comes to tracing one's roots thousands of years in the past. You have a monestrous job ahead of you, to trace a Jewish man or woman's root back to the time of the second temple.

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

The DNA comes from the father. How great God works even when no one understood this in the past God orchestrated this within the 12 tribes of Israel. I believe that through this we can still find out which tribe within the 12 with pinpoint accuracy they are from.

Be blessed

Pastor DT Salaz

It would be easier for you to prove that the sun will not rise tomorrow.

You need to do some more research into this subject.

With respect

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Thanks for the reply. No, your answer really did not help much. You gave somewhat of an example, but it did not answer what I asked. You do realize that much of their population first descended from Israel, right? With that in mind, please give a detailed answer to this: do the Samaritans in the Bible qualify as Jews? Do they qualify as Semites?

Brother Burk, I honestly thought Elder Epley was quoting from another song book. Hey, I'm not kidding this time, I was reading it and thought what happened here? Well, I think it's time to put this puppy to bed, trying to get an answer on this subject on what these men believe is like a blind man trying to read braille with a sponge.

With love and respect for all in this thread discussion.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I don't think you understand what is being discussed here. The Evangelist Timothy while he was half Greek and half Jew, unless he was circumcised he wouldn't be able to enter the temple court of the Jews. Here is were being a doorkeeper held meaning in David's Psalm. Those who were a door keeper had the job of making sure that no uncircumcised Gentile gained entrance into the temple. While Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother, he would of been considered a half breed just like the Samaritans. Unless he underwent the conversion into Judaism. Timothy also would of been able to produce a correct registry of lineage concerning his grandmother’s and mother’s genealogy concerning their lineage. No, modern Jew alive today can prove that they are directly related to anyone in the Bible.




Why would it had to be a Greek soldier? In the first century Middle East Judah was a major trading port that catered to the Roman Empire.
There were also city that didn't have Hebrew names, but were renamed to have Greek names. Therefore Timothy's father could of been of quite a few different occupations. The maternal ancestry of Timothy would of easily been able to view and research prior to the Temple and City of Jerusalem's destruction. After the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, it became increasingly harder to find out who was related to who. Those who were in Babylonian captivity was only there for 70 years, now you have a people misplaced from the Middle East for over 2000 years? That is a great difference, and a major complexity when trying to prove who is a real Jew and who is descended to what tribe. The Samaritans were greatly disliked because they were half breeds and enemies to Judah. Jesus even told the Samaritan woman that her people didn't even know who they worshiped. Not only saying they were mixed up physically, but doctrinally. Jesus went on to say that salvation was of the Jews, meaning the Jews would have the Gospel given to the first and not last.



Have you ever heard the term LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL?

Where are you getting your information from, please explain further.



The tribe of Judah is preserved because that Messiah would come forth from Judah. Therefore the REMNANT of Judah was preserved in Babylon and brought back into the land of Judea so that Messiah would be born at the fulness of time, and made of a woman under the Law. Therefore in Ezra 2, the Jews had to be able to prove who they were and who they were related to. Jesus Himself was able to produce lineages from Mary and Joseph, one going back to Adam, and the other going back to Abraham. Jesus, Paul and the rest of the Jewish apostles could also produce the same proof of registry. No modern Jew can prove they are directly descended to anyone in the tribe of Judah. For over 2,000 years they have mingled their seed with every race.

It’s like saying myself being an Italian, can trace his roots back to Julius Caesar, or Romulus and Remus.



You left off where Jesus answered here.

Joh 4:21-22

"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall NEITHER in this mountain, NOR YET AT JERUSALEM, worship the Father. Ye worship YE KNOW NOT WHAT: we KNOW what we worship: for salvation is OF THE JEWS."

Jesus told the woman that He was going to restore the nation of Israel and they would no longer be worshiping at a physical temple or mountain.

The worshipers worship the Father in Spirit in Truth.

Jesus also made sure to correct the woman and let her know that the Samaritans didn't even know who they worship. The Samaritans while they themselves believed they were still related to Jacob, the Jews felt that was impossible because lack of pedigree.





No, they're Samaritans. To be a Jew you had to be descended from Judah.



Semites don't have blonde hair and blue eyes.



How did racism come into this subject?



Excuse me, are you saying that anti-Semitism goes past the descendents of Shem? Wouldn't that be anti-Gentilism?




If you would do a little more research into this above issue you would find that it is not entirly true. A white man who was trying to find his lineage using DNA found that he had black relatives. DNA, while it may work in police work and court cases, is not 100% when it comes to tracing one's roots thousands of years in the past. You have a monestrous job ahead of you, to trace a Jewish man or woman's root back to the time of the second temple.



It would be easier for you to prove that the sun will not rise tomorrow.

You need to do some more research into this subject.

With respect

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Benincasa, you have it wrong!

Don't you realize they are meaning the lost tribes, like they have here in the USA! Some of them might be of the tribes of Manassah and Ephraim! Sounds like some of these boys are from the lineage of Joseph, that is Joe Smith!

These guys would make some excellant mormons, they believe the same thing! Dispensationalism, two gods, lost gospel, lost tribes, and etc!