Especially now that you are back in bundage! Do you have a new bun pic for your avatar?
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
CC1, you also missed what I was saying as well, there was a time when you could go to a UPC Church & it was different, separate, distinct.
Now I could go into many UPC Church's and there isn't anything different than the world.
What are you expecting as far as a difference? Just because a church dresses, worships, in a contemporary fashion and uses technology, it doesn't mean that church is "like the world". Most obey the Ten Commandments, love God, and love their neighbor....quite unlike the world.
I want to address the point of why the thread was started. I think that the 'younger' generation that is going to be tomorrows leaders are split on some issues. I know alot of them that are company men and women cause of maybe their parents or whatever. Then there are alot that are not company people though they are still in it, this is where I fall. I would not cause division for nothing, but I am certainly not a company man and I hope that things change.
Some of the up and comers envision the church staying the same cause they are maybe to close that they can't see what is wrong with it. On the other hand some up and comers might be so against some of the things that they can not see the good in it.
I feel the question that needs to be anwered is this, are you working for the Kingdom of man or are you working for the Kingdom of God? It seems that often times when we feel we are working for the Kingdom of God it is in acutally working in the Kingdom of man
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Jack Shephard.
I want to address the point of why the thread was started. I think that the 'younger' generation that is going to be tomorrows leaders are split on some issues. I know alot of them that are company men and women cause of maybe their parents or whatever. Then there are alot that are not company people though they are still in it, this is where I fall. I would not cause division for nothing, but I am certainly not a company man and I hope that things change.
Some of the up and comers envision the church staying the same cause they are maybe to close that they can't see what is wrong with it. On the other hand some up and comers might be so against some of the things that they can not see the good in it.
I feel the question that needs to be anwered is this, are you working for the Kingdom of man or are you working for the Kingdom of God? It seems that often times when we feel we are working for the Kingdom of God it is in acutally working in the Kingdom of man
Good post!
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Believe it or not, there are many people in the "world" who do not lay around in gutters with needles sticking out of their arms. They are actually productive members of society, who don't smoke, don't drink... DON'T cheat on their taxes, run businesses, governments, practice medicine, etc. I know it's hard to believe that Pentecostals do not keep the world spinning on its axis...
Brad, I agree with you. There are many good people in the world. I have rubbed shoulders with lots of people that were not Pentecostal that are shinning examples of many good things. Thank you for reminding us.
Blessings to you.
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Indeed.
I do believe there will be some changes in Pentecost over time as the generational shift continues.
....but to imply that the younger generation is biding their time, waiting for the older ones "to die off" just seems to paint a very distorted picture of things.
Yes, I agree. I was responding to an earlier implication that that may be what the younger ones are doing.
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Those disagreeing with non biblical standards are OK with you TR because you have left the mothership in thsi regard too.
You speak of those not maintaining their core values.
I see very little separation between "core values" and non biblical standards doctrines.
In most of Ol Time Pentecost the clothsline doctrines are the Core doctrines.
The main thing in OTP ARE are our long held traditoins and customs. Standards are is the main thing, not speaking in tongues or baptism in Jesus name. It's all about how our ladies are forced to look.
A very cynical view, and simply inaccurate also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Some of us have NO IDEA who Pelathais is except for the story he tells us. I have been disconnected with the UPC for the past 17 years and before that I completely detested UPC politics in Maryland. I believe what Pel has told of his past in the UPC, but when I read his account, I wonder if there is any lingering bitterness and unforgiveness toward those who wronged him. He may just be retelling his experience but from what I have read, I hope there isn't anything that would interfer with his relationship with God. IOW, I would hate for those who have offended him in the past to have any control over his eternal destination.
I was trying to express the same thing, but some here thought I was slamming him. Oh well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Paleontologist, French Person, and Pee Pee,
I am enjoying your interaction on this thread temendously. This is a very good discussion.
What you guys appear to be working through is how each of us have our own perspective that filters how we read and view others posts. That sometimes causes us to incorrectly perceive what another person is trying to say.
I have noticed that in old time Pentecost there are some ingrained repsonses to any constructvie criticism and for the record Mr. French Person falls right into that catagory with the "bitterness" card.
It always seems to come back to the the old saying that the best defense is a good offense.
"bitterness card"??.
Sir, in a discussion, someone playing that kind of "card" would be doing it for some kind of cynical or strategic purpose... to kind of paint someone in a corner in a sense. If you understood the tone of my comments you would see I said what I said out of concern, not for any kind of advantage against the man. So there is not "bitterness card" being played here.
Perhaps you have incorrectly perceived what I was trying to say.
Change usually only comes as a last resort when the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of changing.
That's how eagles get their little ones to leave the nest. The mother eagle will start taking away the softer materials in the nest until all that is left is sharp twigs. The little eaglets are no longer comfortable and it finally becomes so uncomfortable that they take the leap and spread their wings to fly.
In the Apostolic church, the pain of changing is the possible loss of lifelong friends and comrades. Also, nobody enjoys the prospects of disappointing a mentor where you are maybe his prize pupil. In many cases, some may wait for the mentor to pass away before they change.
When the pain of remaining the same and becoming further and further removed from your everyday culture becomes greater than the prospects of lost friendships and fellowship, change will come!
It may take waiting for some of the older ministers to die, but change will eventually come!
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