Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Ego
I do think Newman's analysis is correct. There will be an exodus of moderates if they (the UPC leadership) start banging the separation drum incessantly.
there have always been the bangers - any increased publication won't change anything regarding the individual churches.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
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Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
there have always been the bangers - any increased publication won't change anything regarding the individual churches.
The larger issue is the intent of the General Board to "pastor" local churches through every means at their disposal.
Quote:
At the same time, the General Board concluded that it is not enough simply to reaffirm our position, but we must implement practical ways to teach biblical holiness. To accomplish this goal, various means will be employed, including publications, General Conference, Global Impact, and other methods.
Sunday School curriculum and other publications are to be used to teach "biblical holiness."
When did it beome the General Superintendent and General Board's mandate to "teach?"
Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW
I've been around a long time as well, though not as long as you. I don't get offended easily... and I'm not offended now... but it's hurtful to hear the things you've said. But, it's your right to say them... no one is debating that.
Your judgement of the men at the head of our org... is between you and God. It does hurt people who love their leadership and pray for them though.
(as I said previously... I have used the term Vatican and made jokes myself... but I'm a part of it. And I don't call down our leaders by likening them to hirelings, only interested in the money. I'd be lying if I didn't say it ticks me off when people do... especially those who are not a part of the UPCI... whether they were in the past or not.)
I truly am sorry if you were offended by my remarks, but you can't say that folks IN the org can use them and I can't. That's just not right. In light of my UPCI roots, I have every right to express my opinion, flawed as it may be. I have NEVER made disparaging remarks toward Bro. Haney, if that is who you are referring to. In fact, I respect him and many of the other leaders highly. I also didn't make any remarks to anyone personally. I normally don't do that.
However, AE, made some observations that are worth noting and that is that there is a paradigm, a DNA, if you will in the org that seems to remove from many (certainly not all) the heart of a servant. I have seen many ascend the ladder of leadership and in many cases they exchange their towel for a sceptre or even a sword.
One of the things the org needs to do is come to some kind of consensus as to how they can better serve vis a vis the small church pastor, who makes up most of the org. Most of he influence in the UPCI, IMO, comes from the larger churches which is disproportionate to the entire fellowship. As I mentioned earlier, IMO, the org is extremely top heavy and NEEDS funds to stay that way. It is no different than any org which has gone through what the UPCI has gone through. They can change or die. Actually, they probably won't die, but they'll continue to lose influence on the "body" at large. Pastors will start to see that they can reach their cities w/o an org and do just fine. They can be ordained, be involved in missions etc all w/o an organization. The smaller an organization is, the easier it is to do what it originally intended to do.
I'm truly sorry you seem to be so "touchy" about the org, but feel free to criticize the independent Oneness churches for things which need to be brought to the forefront and I'll be the first to chime in and acknowledge the "warts." I assure you that I can "get" as good as I can "give."
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
I'm truly sorry you seem to be so "touchy" about the org, but feel free to criticize the independent Oneness churches for things which need to be brought to the forefront and I'll be the first to chime in and acknowledge the "warts." I assure you that I can "get" as good as I can "give."
I try not to criticize other organizations or independants, because they're not mine. I have given my opinion on things, but I really do try to be respectful.
No need to apologize, I'm not touchy about my org anymore than you would be touchy about your Saints.
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
I truly am sorry if you were offended by my remarks, but you can't say that folks IN the org can use them and I can't. That's just not right. In light of my UPCI roots, I have every right to express my opinion, flawed as it may be. I have NEVER made disparaging remarks toward Bro. Haney, if that is who you are referring to. In fact, I respect him and many of the other leaders highly. I also didn't make any remarks to anyone personally. I normally don't do that.
However, AE, made some observations that are worth noting and that is that there is a paradigm, a DNA, if you will in the org that seems to remove from many (certainly not all) the heart of a servant. I have seen many ascend the ladder of leadership and in many cases they exchange their towel for a sceptre or even a sword.
One of the things the org needs to do is come to some kind of consensus as to how they can better serve vis a visthe small church pastor, who makes up most of the org. Most of he influence in the UPCI, IMO, comes from the larger churches which is disproportionate to the entire fellowship. As I mentioned earlier, IMO, the org is extremely top heavy and NEEDS funds to stay that way. It is no different than any org which has gone through what the UPCI has gone through. They can change or die. Actually, they probably won't die, but they'll continue to lose influence on the "body" at large. Pastors will start to see that they can reach their cities w/o an org and do just fine. They can be ordained, be involved in missions etc all w/o an organization. The smaller an organization is, the easier it is to do what it originally intended to do.
I'm truly sorry you seem to be so "touchy" about the org, but feel free to criticize the independent Oneness churches for things which need to be brought to the forefront and I'll be the first to chime in and acknowledge the "warts." I assure you that I can "get" as good as I can "give."
MOW, while I do not agree with a lot of your comments about the UPCI (Humanity) that can not be said about other ORG'S or Churches.
I do agree on some things, it is top heavy, it is Administratively set up that it almost is bureaucratic.
These things can be fixed & unfortunately the "little Church" on the street corner is the one not most easily served!
Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
I truly am sorry if you were offended by my remarks, but you can't say that folks IN the org can use them and I can't. That's just not right. In light of my UPCI roots, I have every right to express my opinion, flawed as it may be. I have NEVER made disparaging remarks toward Bro. Haney, if that is who you are referring to. In fact, I respect him and many of the other leaders highly. I also didn't make any remarks to anyone personally. I normally don't do that.
However, AE, made some observations that are worth noting and that is that there is a paradigm, a DNA, if you will in the org that seems to remove from many (certainly not all) the heart of a servant. I have seen many ascend the ladder of leadership and in many cases they exchange their towel for a sceptre or even a sword.
One of the things the org needs to do is come to some kind of consensus as to how they can better serve vis a vis the small church pastor, who makes up most of the org. Most of he influence in the UPCI, IMO, comes from the larger churches which is disproportionate to the entire fellowship. As I mentioned earlier, IMO, the org is extremely top heavy and NEEDS funds to stay that way. It is no different than any org which has gone through what the UPCI has gone through. They can change or die. Actually, they probably won't die, but they'll continue to lose influence on the "body" at large. Pastors will start to see that they can reach their cities w/o an org and do just fine. They can be ordained, be involved in missions etc all w/o an organization. The smaller an organization is, the easier it is to do what it originally intended to do.
I'm truly sorry you seem to be so "touchy" about the org, but feel free to criticize the independent Oneness churches for things which need to be brought to the forefront and I'll be the first to chime in and acknowledge the "warts." I assure you that I can "get" as good as I can "give."
This is a very good point, MOW. I find that in many places and not just the UPC, but I do take your point as also including the UPCI.
Quote:
However, AE, made some observations that are worth noting and that is that there is a paradigm, a DNA, if you will in the org that seems to remove from many (certainly not all) the heart of a servant. I have seen many ascend the ladder of leadership and in many cases they exchange their towel for a sceptre or even a sword.
I've noticed a host of things I could comment on "across the board", and not only related to the UPCI, but I'll keep those comments "under my hat", so to speak.
Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
I think I am pretty happy with the over all direction the UPCI is taking.
I have heard the ultra cons screaming. and here the libs are pretty disgusted...
must be a clearly moderate move.
Go us!
I agree, Ferd! I'm pleased. I have it from close association that some are getting back in the UPC because the ultra-cons are not causing them so much grief having left - that from moderates.
Anyway, I said I wouldn't weigh in, but I'm a moderate.
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