Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

[Evenuntodeath]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Might try this one:

Dead.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Sadly, this one and only plan was unheard of for century after century after century...until after 1913 that is.

Just as "salvation by Grace through Faith" was unheard of until after Martin Luther....despite the fact Luther still believed baptism was necessary

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Sadly, this one and only plan was unheard of for century after century after century...until after 1913 that is.

1913??

How strange, I always thought that Peter and the Apostles preached in the first Century the one and only plan?

Isn't Acts 2:38 a first century teaching?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Just as "salvation by Grace through Faith" was unheard of until after Martin Luther....despite the fact Luther still believed baptism was necessary

Yet, folks were saved by grace through faith before Martin Luther preached it. Just as folks were saved by grace through faith long before the sudden appearance of oneness pentecostalism in 1913 with it's unique salvation doctrines.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

1913??

How strange, I always thought that Peter and the Apostles preached in the first Century the one and only plan?

Isn't Acts 2:38 a first century teaching?

Start with the 1800s.....where is the Church of Jesus Christ during that century.....can't find it? How about the 1700s? The 1600s? The inability for you to find a powerful and visible Church of Jesus Christ doesn't bother you at all though, I suspect. You cannot find the Church of Jesus Christ according to oneness pentecostal salvation theology until after their sudden appearance in 1913. There's a reason for that.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Start with the 1800s.....where is the Church of Jesus Christ during that century.....can't find it? How about the 1700s? The 1600s? The inability for you to find a powerful and visible Church of Jesus Christ doesn't bother you at all though, I suspect. You cannot find the Church of Jesus Christ according to oneness pentecostal salvation theology until after their sudden appearance in 1913. There's a reason for that.

The only Powerful and Visible church has been the Catholic Church, everyone else was part of the hidden persecuted church.

Where do you think the Catholic found all those millions of "heretics" to burn at the stake throughout the centuries?

A visible church would be an easy target for the fire.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Yet, folks were saved by grace through faith before Martin Luther preached it. Just as folks were saved by grace through faith long before the sudden appearance of oneness pentecostalism in 1913 with it's unique salvation doctrines.

Repentance and baptism in Jesus name predate 1913 as does receiving the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I just don't know of any instance where it was preached as a necessity for salvation but that does not mean it was not experienced.

Until Luther Christians were taught to believe it was their works or faith + works that saved them.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The only Powerful and Visible church has been the Catholic Church, everyone else was part of the hidden persecuted church.

Where do you think the Catholic found all those millions of "heretics" to burn at the stake throughout the centuries?

A visible church would be an easy target for the fire.

There were no roman catholics burning at the stake in America for the past few hundred years so your excuse has no basis in fact. Why can you not find the powerful and visible Church of Jesus Christ during the 1800s in America. Or the 1700s? Or the 1600s?

Why is it you can only find the Church of Jesus Christ after R.E. McAlisters sermon in Los Angeles in 1913?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Repentance and baptism in Jesus name predate 1913 as does receiving the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I just don't know of any instance where it was preached as a necessity for salvation but that does not mean it was not experienced.

Until Luther Christians were taught to believe it was their works or faith + works that saved them.

The tripartite salvation message of oneness pentecostalism that one MUST have another man intone certain words over the baptizee and that one MUST receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues and that one MUST follow certain standards cannot be found in any Christian sect until the sudden appearance of the oneness pentecostal sect in 1913. I'm not saying that those things weren't experienced, but that the salvation message of oneness pentecostalism can't be found. I'm saying that there have been billions of Christians who never followed the message of oneness pentecostalism.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The tripartite salvation message of oneness pentecostalism that one MUST have another man intone certain words over the baptizee and that one MUST receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues and that one MUST follow certain standards cannot be found in any Christian sect until the sudden appearance of the oneness pentecostal sect in 1913.

I agree but it's gonna be hard to find the "salvation by grace alone through faith alone" in any Christian sect either before Luther for hundreds of years

I'm not saying that those things weren't experienced, but that the salvation message of oneness pentecostalism can't be found. I'm saying that there have been billions of Christians who never followed the message of oneness pentecostalism.

I brought up experience because you did when I pointed out nobody preached grace through faith alone before Luther