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  #81  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:02 PM
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Evenuntodeath Evenuntodeath is offline
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Might try this one:

Dead.
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  #82  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:03 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
Sadly, this one and only plan was unheard of for century after century after century...until after 1913 that is.
Just as "salvation by Grace through Faith" was unheard of until after Martin Luther....despite the fact Luther still believed baptism was necessary
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  #83  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:05 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
Sadly, this one and only plan was unheard of for century after century after century...until after 1913 that is.
1913??

How strange, I always thought that Peter and the Apostles preached in the first Century the one and only plan?

Isn't Acts 2:38 a first century teaching?
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  #84  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:09 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Just as "salvation by Grace through Faith" was unheard of until after Martin Luther....despite the fact Luther still believed baptism was necessary
Yet, folks were saved by grace through faith before Martin Luther preached it. Just as folks were saved by grace through faith long before the sudden appearance of oneness pentecostalism in 1913 with it's unique salvation doctrines.
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  #85  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:12 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
1913??

How strange, I always thought that Peter and the Apostles preached in the first Century the one and only plan?

Isn't Acts 2:38 a first century teaching?
Start with the 1800s.....where is the Church of Jesus Christ during that century.....can't find it? How about the 1700s? The 1600s? The inability for you to find a powerful and visible Church of Jesus Christ doesn't bother you at all though, I suspect. You cannot find the Church of Jesus Christ according to oneness pentecostal salvation theology until after their sudden appearance in 1913. There's a reason for that.
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  #86  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:36 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
Start with the 1800s.....where is the Church of Jesus Christ during that century.....can't find it? How about the 1700s? The 1600s? The inability for you to find a powerful and visible Church of Jesus Christ doesn't bother you at all though, I suspect. You cannot find the Church of Jesus Christ according to oneness pentecostal salvation theology until after their sudden appearance in 1913. There's a reason for that.
The only Powerful and Visible church has been the Catholic Church, everyone else was part of the hidden persecuted church.

Where do you think the Catholic found all those millions of "heretics" to burn at the stake throughout the centuries?

A visible church would be an easy target for the fire.
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  #87  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:41 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
Yet, folks were saved by grace through faith before Martin Luther preached it. Just as folks were saved by grace through faith long before the sudden appearance of oneness pentecostalism in 1913 with it's unique salvation doctrines.
Repentance and baptism in Jesus name predate 1913 as does receiving the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I just don't know of any instance where it was preached as a necessity for salvation but that does not mean it was not experienced.

Until Luther Christians were taught to believe it was their works or faith + works that saved them.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #88  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:44 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
The only Powerful and Visible church has been the Catholic Church, everyone else was part of the hidden persecuted church.

Where do you think the Catholic found all those millions of "heretics" to burn at the stake throughout the centuries?

A visible church would be an easy target for the fire.
There were no roman catholics burning at the stake in America for the past few hundred years so your excuse has no basis in fact. Why can you not find the powerful and visible Church of Jesus Christ during the 1800s in America. Or the 1700s? Or the 1600s?

Why is it you can only find the Church of Jesus Christ after R.E. McAlisters sermon in Los Angeles in 1913?
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  #89  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:51 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Repentance and baptism in Jesus name predate 1913 as does receiving the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I just don't know of any instance where it was preached as a necessity for salvation but that does not mean it was not experienced.

Until Luther Christians were taught to believe it was their works or faith + works that saved them.
The tripartite salvation message of oneness pentecostalism that one MUST have another man intone certain words over the baptizee and that one MUST receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues and that one MUST follow certain standards cannot be found in any Christian sect until the sudden appearance of the oneness pentecostal sect in 1913. I'm not saying that those things weren't experienced, but that the salvation message of oneness pentecostalism can't be found. I'm saying that there have been billions of Christians who never followed the message of oneness pentecostalism.
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  #90  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
The tripartite salvation message of oneness pentecostalism that one MUST have another man intone certain words over the baptizee and that one MUST receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues and that one MUST follow certain standards cannot be found in any Christian sect until the sudden appearance of the oneness pentecostal sect in 1913.
I agree but it's gonna be hard to find the "salvation by grace alone through faith alone" in any Christian sect either before Luther for hundreds of years

Quote:
I'm not saying that those things weren't experienced, but that the salvation message of oneness pentecostalism can't be found. I'm saying that there have been billions of Christians who never followed the message of oneness pentecostalism.
I brought up experience because you did when I pointed out nobody preached grace through faith alone before Luther
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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