Ok, now the Sister Beezer situation is spilling over into this thread. No disrespect SB, but I would think your situation is pretty irregular and dynamic and therefore has little or no context here?
You tell me.
I am more interested in your personal feelings and not those seen through the glasses of your previous church....thanks.
this would be my personal feelings even if i had not had a bad experience. i firmly believe it is wrong to constantly focus on what is wrong. when we focus constantly on standards and the "outside", we tend to neglect the inside.
the bible says several interresting things:
Mt 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mt 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Lu 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
should we not focus on the inside first? i would much rather teach my children (which i did when they were growing up) to get their insides right. if they inside is right, the outside will follow.
God demands holiness Holiness is attained through standards
You cannot be holy with out standards.
This is the problem of mixing "standards" with holiness. Standards are church rules that we instill to promote church order. They have no redeeming values whatsoever. Holiness is something God does when we are born again. He washes our sin away and we are made Holy. Holiness isn't attained by standards. Holiness isn't something that can be legislated. I could post a sign sating all the things "I" think a person needs to do to be "Holy". and people may adherr to them. But that won't make them or me holy. Nothing can make us holy except the shed Blood of Jesus Christ. Standards are the principles that we live by to help us stay holy, but keeping them does not make us holy. And the standards of God's Words are found in the Life of Christ. Follow His example and follow Him- thats what will keep us holy.
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"Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him...." -Psa. 37:7
Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
this would be my personal feelings even if i had not had a bad experience. i firmly believe it is wrong to constantly focus on what is wrong. when we focus constantly on standards and the "outside", we tend to neglect the inside.
the bible says several interresting things:
Mt 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mt 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Lu 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.
should we not focus on the inside first? i would much rather teach my children (which i did when they were growing up) to get their insides right. if they inside is right, the outside will follow.
The scripture you provided actually teaches us to keep both the inside AND the outside clean. The Pharisees weren't wrong for keeping their outside "clean"...they were wrong for leaving their inside dirty.
There needs to balance, and that definitely applies to what we teach our children.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
The scripture you provided actually teaches us to keep both the inside AND the outside clean. The Pharisees weren't wrong for keeping their outside "clean"...they were wrong for leaving their inside dirty.
There needs to balance, and that definitely applies to what we teach our children.
that was my point. what good is it to have a clean outside, if the inside is dirty.
I didn't teach my kids "standards". I taught them "principles". To know the difference, see the "Rules vs. Principles" thread. I tried the "standards" approach and all I got was "Why?". As I gave them one rule, it begat another and so on. So, I began instilling principles, which is exactly what Jesus did. Laying a foundation, so to speak, upon which, they, themselves, began to build their own standards. I encouraged them to be honest, to have integrity and to gain the confidence of others. Upon that, they established the standard of telling the truth and to not lie. My wife and I gave them the "modesty principle" and, from that, they gained insight as to why we refrained from activities that were immoral and immodest. I didn't want my kids to grow up in a world of DON'Ts like I had, but to realize they had freedom to choose the way to live their lives as it pleases the Lord. I didn't want mindless robots that obeyed my every command... but I wanted them to follow HIS voice... to please HIM. Not me or their mother... and certainly not a church full of people who were mired down in rules and regulations that stripped them of their liberty in Christ. I wanted them to be conformed to HIS image... not mine. And, by instilling principles early in their young lives, they were, and are, free to allow the Holy Ghost to lead and guide them into all truth.
Awesome! This is what I believe we should do also… excellent post… You said exactly what I feel…
I live fairly moderate (upc) lifestyle … well, except for cutting hair… I have raised my kids so different than I was raised.. I pray always that I am doing ok. I live by convictions and lead by example. Every day I teach them to love my God… who is so very real in my life.
I have one daughter that lives according to traditional standards although would be liberal to some here.. two daughters that do not follow traditional upc standards. I’ve taught them all to respect those who do believe differently.
It is a lot about principles… and although I’ve tried to teach them… sometimes I grieve because I don’t think they are getting them all… or doubt they are…lol Then they turn around and surprise me. I guess I would rather them fail with a loving mom there to help them up in restoration than facing a dark cold world on their own. I have allowed my girls to grow spiritually at their own pace…giving them a choice in things. I just provide what I believe is the right environment… and lots of prayer. I will not have robots that have no clue why they live a certain way… that was me some 10 years ago. Some people might think my kids are too vocal…not afraid to question… I’ve taught them to be that way.
I am all the time telling my girls… it has to come from your heart because you choose to live a life of a Christian… otherwise, you are just fooling yourself and others.. but never God.
Just curious, I was talking with a young fella, three kids under 6 yrs old, two girls 6 and 1.
He doesn't really go to church but his wife is a PK and all his family around him have been in UPC for years...decades actually.
I was asking him about if he has had any battles regarding standards...
His response was, "Not yet, but the day (my oldest daughter) comes home from SS and says it is a sin to cut your hair, it will be an interesting day!"
Personally, my daughter (7yro) is in Ty Kwan Do, soccer, basketball, etc. and I am kind of surprised there aren't any issues...yet.
I don't have to worry about the hair thing, she is convinced it is going to hurt if she cuts it, although she went with me one time for a haircut and saw some girls donating their locks to a cancer organization and was interested in doing the same. I told her, "You are going to have to talk to momma about that..."
The point is that these kids have no clue about the why of standards and I think to hold the hard line is unreasonable...
havent read this whole thread, actually only the first post.....How do I teach my 5 children - "Standards"..........I live em......try to everyday......that is how they learn.......then when they have questions I do my best to give them a Biblical Answer...........pretty easy in a lot of ways........
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