Oneness vs Trinity (Can someone give a non-bias) - Page 8

Jito463 · #71 05-28-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, you haven't explained how, scripturally or otherwise, God is one, but at the same time is also two 'somethings', Jesus deity and Jesus humanity, distinct from each other but really the same person or entity.

If Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father who is He? I'd like an explanation without you reverting to 'transcendent existence' but instead explain exactly how Jesus the Son of God is related to His God and Father, God the Father but they're really not each other but at the same time are really each other.

Jesus, in His deity, is God the Father. The eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and holy One (as in, there is none above Him or beside Him). Jesus, in His humanity, is the son of God, and the son of man. Jesus Himself said (speaking from His humanity), I and my Father are one.

I suppose I should ask this first, do you believe the Bible? Do you believe it is the holy, infallible Word of God? If not, there is no further basis for discussion on this topic. Just based on the limited interaction I've had with you on this forum, I honestly don't know the answer. So I'd appreciate it if you could clarify that for me, please.

seekerman · #72 05-28-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, you haven't explained how, scripturally or otherwise, God is one, but at the same time is also two 'somethings', Jesus deity and Jesus humanity, distinct from each other but really the same person or entity.

If Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father who is He? I'd like an explanation without you reverting to 'transcendent existence' but instead explain exactly how Jesus the Son of God is related to His God and Father, God the Father but they're really not each other but at the same time are really each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463

Jesus, in His deity, is God the Father. The eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and holy One (as in, there is none above Him or beside Him). Jesus, in His humanity, is the son of God, and the son of man. Jesus Himself said (speaking from His humanity), I and my Father are one.

That didn't come close to addressing the issues in my questions.

Quote:

I suppose I should ask this first, do you believe the Bible? Do you believe it is the holy, infallible Word of God? If not, there is no further basis for discussion on this topic. Just based on the limited interaction I've had with you on this forum, I honestly don't know the answer. So I'd appreciate it if you could clarify that for me, please.

I believe scripture is the holy, infallible Word of God, the problem is with translation here and there. That has nothing to do with the issues above though.

Jito463 · #73 05-28-2013, 09:01 PM

Given that, then do you doubt I Timothy 3:16, that I quoted above? Which clearly states God was manifest in the flesh?

*EDIT*
Oh, that's cool. I always manually added the Biblegateway link, I didn't know the forum did it automatically. Good to know.

seekerman · #74 05-28-2013, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463

Given that, then do you doubt I Timothy 3:16, that I quoted above? Which clearly states God was manifest in the flesh?

No, I don't doubt that. Neither do I doubt 2 Cor 5:19.

Now, again, you haven't explained how, scripturally or otherwise, God is one, but at the same time is also two 'somethings', Jesus deity and Jesus humanity, distinct from each other but really the same person or entity.

If Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father who is He? Please explain exactly how Jesus the Son of God is related to His God and Father, God the Father but they're really not each other but at the same time are really each other.

Jito463 · #75 05-28-2013, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, I don't doubt that. Neither do I doubt 2 Cor 5:19.

Now, again, you haven't explained how, scripturally or otherwise, God is one, but at the same time is also two 'somethings', Jesus deity and Jesus humanity, distinct from each other but really the same person or entity.

If Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father who is He? Please explain exactly how Jesus the Son of God is related to His God and Father, God the Father but they're really not each other but at the same time are really each other.

We have explained, you just don't want to read it. God was manifest in the flesh. If you're looking for a step-by-step explanation of how that works, you won't find one. The Bible doesn't specify, and says (again, in that same verse) that it is a great mystery. Why don't you explain what you believe, then we can go forward from there.

seekerman · #76 05-28-2013, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463

We have explained, you just don't want to read it. God was manifest in the flesh. If you're looking for a step-by-step explanation of how that works, you won't find one. The Bible doesn't specify, and says (again, in that same verse) that it is a great mystery. Why don't you explain what you believe, then we can go forward from there.

I'm simply looking for a reconciliation of the oneness view that God is broken into two parts, humanity and deity, with both parts having their own identity distinct from each other. I ask again, if Jesus the Son of God the Father isn't God the Father, who is He? Oneness folks wish to proclaim the humanity/deity split in God but will not explain the two Jesus view, namely Jesus the Son of God who isn't Jesus God the Father but is one God with Himself as Jesus the Son and Jesus the Father.

My view has absolutely nothing to do with the inability of oneness adherents to explain this distinctive split in the one God which results in one Jesus, Jesus the Son of God the Father, interacting with His, Mary's and His brethren's God and Father which is the other Jesus, Jesus God the Father...who isn't Jesus the Son of God the Father.

Jito463 · #77 05-28-2013, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

I'm simply looking for a reconciliation of the oneness view that God is broken into two parts, humanity and deity, with both parts having their own identity distinct from each other. I ask again, if Jesus the Son of God the Father isn't God the Father, who is He? Oneness folks wish to proclaim the humanity/deity split in God but will not explain the two Jesus view, namely Jesus the Son of God who isn't Jesus God the Father but is one God with Himself as Jesus the Son and Jesus the Father.

My view has absolutely nothing to do with the inability of oneness adherents to explain this distinctive split in the one God which results in one Jesus, Jesus the Son of God the Father, interacting with His, Mary's and His brethren's God and Father which is the other Jesus, Jesus God the Father...who isn't Jesus the Son of God the Father.

Who here has said that? No one that I saw. Yes, you can distinguish between the humanity and the deity of Jesus, but that's not the same thing as being "broken into two parts". Just as my real name is Byron, but my online handle is Jito463. I can demonstrate a clear distinction between the two (I do not go around introducing myself as Jito463 in real life), yet they're both my identity. Not a perfect analogy, but then, what analogy is. Once again, you're insisting on an answer, but then rejecting the answer given if it doesn't fit what you expect that answer to be. This seems a common tactic with you.

So, I ask you once again. What do you believe about Jesus?

seekerman · #78 05-28-2013, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463

Who here has said that? No one that I saw. Yes, you can distinguish between the humanity and the deity of Jesus, but that's not the same thing as being "broken into two parts". Just as my real name is Byron, but my online handle is Jito463. I can demonstrate a clear distinction between the two (I do not go around introducing myself as Jito463 in real life), yet they're both my identity. Not a perfect analogy, but then, what analogy is. Once again, you're insisting on an answer, but then rejecting the answer given if it doesn't fit what you expect that answer to be. This seems a common tactic with you.

So, I ask you once again. What do you believe about Jesus?

Nope, it's not what I believe about Jesus that's being questioned. You're attempting to take the focus from the oneness view and the issues associated with it and divert the discussion to what I believe.

Of course the oneness view splits God in two, divides Him.....one part which is humanity and the other part which is deity. Humanity isn't deity and deity isn't humanity. But the division, the distinction is much more than a humanity/deity split, it's a Jesus the Son of God and a Jesus God the Father split also. You're not addressing that split even though I've asked for a few posts now. Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father but yet Jesus is one God?

Let me post my requests once again. And this is about JESUS.

I ask again, if Jesus the Son of God the Father isn't God the Father, who is He? Oneness folks wish to proclaim the humanity/deity split in God but will not explain the two Jesus view, namely Jesus the Son of God who isn't Jesus God the Father but is one God with Himself as Jesus the Son and Jesus the Father.

My view has absolutely nothing to do with the inability of oneness adherents to explain this distinctive split in the one God which results in one Jesus, Jesus the Son of God the Father, interacting with His, Mary's and His brethren's God and Father which is the other Jesus, Jesus God the Father...who isn't Jesus the Son of God the Father.

Jito463 · #79 05-28-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

My view has absolutely nothing to do with the inability of oneness adherents to explain this distinctive split in the one God which results in one Jesus, Jesus the Son of God the Father, interacting with His, Mary's and His brethren's God and Father which is the other Jesus, Jesus God the Father...who isn't Jesus the Son of God the Father.

Your view has everything to do with it. Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. Either you believe that, or you don't. From there, it's a question of whether there is only one God, or if you believe in a multiple personality Godhead. You already know our view (the Bible is very clear that God is One), why not give us yours? Are you scared to let us know what you truly believe?

seekerman · #80 05-28-2013, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463

Your view has everything to do with it. Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. Either you believe that, or you don't. From there, it's a question of whether there is only one God, or if you believe in a multiple personality Godhead. You already know our view (the Bible is very clear that God is One), why not give us yours? Are you scared to let us know what you truly believe?

You're avoiding the two Jesus issue over and over....why? Why aren't you specifically addressing that. Here it is again.....

Of course the oneness view splits God in two, divides Him.....one part which is humanity and the other part which is deity. Humanity isn't deity and deity isn't humanity. But the division, the distinction is much more than a humanity/deity split, it's a Jesus the Son of God and a Jesus God the Father split also. You're not addressing that split even though I've asked for a few posts now. Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father but yet Jesus is one God?

Let me post my requests once again. And this is about JESUS.

I ask again, if Jesus the Son of God the Father isn't God the Father, who is He? Oneness folks wish to proclaim the humanity/deity split in God but will not explain the two Jesus view, namely Jesus the Son of God who isn't Jesus God the Father but is one God with Himself as Jesus the Son and Jesus the Father.

My view has absolutely nothing to do with the inability of oneness adherents to explain this distinctive split in the one God which results in one Jesus, Jesus the Son of God the Father, interacting with His, Mary's and His brethren's God and Father which is the other Jesus, Jesus God the Father...who isn't Jesus the Son of God the Father.

Why are you continually evading the two Jesus issue?