Hair As A Covering

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

Don't always assume that someone not inviting to fellowship doesn't mean these people don't want to be friends, or get to know you. I don't invite people out to eat on Sunday after service because I don't go to restaurants or places of business on Sunday... and a lot of folks aren't comfortable coming to someone's home they don't know. I certainly don't on Wednesday nights because I need to be in bed by 8:30 because I get up so early.

And some people just aren't social beings... and that is me for the most part. I am just not a social person. I love people, would do anything for anybody that needed it... and love to be asked if someone needs help or prayer, or an ear.... but I just love being a loner and prefer to eat by myself, go on vacation by myself, hang at home by myself.... so maybe this just isn't a social group of people, or they don't want to invade your space.

In the 20 years I lived at home, and went to church every single Sunday with my parents... NEVER in 20 years did someone invite our family out to eat, or over to their house for fellowship... and we never thought a thing of it. Why do you expect them to offer fellowship to you?

By no means was I insinuating someone should take us out to eat. I realize that MANY Church people equate fellowship with eating a meal. I would rather get together and just get to know someone in their walk with Jesus any day and go eat after I get to know them.

The part about not wanting someone to come to your house you dont know is easily dealt with. There is a Church building right? Why cant it stay open for fellowship between saints? Your statement about never being invited for fellowship on one hand is shocking.

Acts 2:42 says they continued steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer. Jesus said by your love they will know you are mine. A deep, genuine love is one of the marks of a New Testament Church if not THE mark.

On the other hand Im not surprised. When I was in the Church System thats what I saw mostly especially among "Apostolics".

To them fellowship means coming to the Church building and hearing sermons a few times a week. My Apostolic Pastor appointed me an elder in the Church before I had even been to his house. When I pressed him to get together he ok'd it.

The Deacon who had been there 3 years told me he had NEVER been to his house! Well in a years time we went to his house once and he came to mine one. Hardly what I would call Biblical New Testament fellowship.

Another Apostolic Church I went to the Pastor would preach an hour and a half, throwing in some stories along the way about the good ole days in Kentucky. I remember after sitting there on a pew for that long starving for personal fellowship and him saying "arent we having sweet fellowship in the house of God?"

Sorry friend but I came to Jesus during the "Jesus Movement" of the 70's. We had real fellowship. We would meet many times and go pass out tracts and preach the word. Then we would go to someones house or even meet in the Coffee House for hours of fellowship and worshipping the Lord.

After experiencing that the Apostolic System seems really dead to me.

"Hot sermons" are king there. Church attendance is considered to be a holy thing. The Church building sits there empty most of the week while people hunger for the reality of New Testament fellowship.

To me its just pathetic.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The two UPCI churches I attended were the same way. I know there are others out there that aren't thought.

The church I know of specifically is in Canada and they are Apostolic. I've heard of others. I embraced the head covering thing for a while and then dropped it. I don't believe that was Paul's point.

I know one in your area. The New Testament Church Of Fairborn on Black Lane. I was an elder there at one time before I came to Oneness truth. They were a close fellowshipping kind of Church. When I met the Pastor (at his house) he invited me back and I fellowshipped with him weekly for several years before joining the Church there.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Another Apostolic Church I went to the Pastor would preach an hour and a half, throwing in some stories along the way about the good ole days in Kentucky. I remember after sitting there on a pew for that long starving for personal fellowship and him saying "arent we having sweet fellowship in the house of God?"

I respect your desires for fellowship brother, though I don't totally understand it. Not everyone is wired that way, and for me... I've never craved personal fellowship... just not my thing. I've been satisfied with church events, some outreach events, and some fellowship meals from time to time. I wasn't raised, as I said before, where church people fellowshipped outside the church... and honestly, the only people we ever "fellowshipped" with was family, and that was very, very, very seldom. We kept to ourselves at home, and that was how we were happy... just how our family is wired.

So, I'm just asking you to realize, not everyone starves for it, as you said you did. Some of us, the desire never even crosses our minds... and if it were seen as a needful thing, we'd have to force ourselves to do it as it's waaaayyyy outside of our comfort zone.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes.

Thank you. I agree with your thoughts (but you said it better than I could!)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I know one in your area. The New Testament Church Of Fairborn on Black Lane. I was an elder there at one time before I came to Oneness truth. They were a close fellowshipping kind of Church. When I met the Pastor (at his house) he invited me back and I fellowshipped with him weekly for several years before joining the Church there.

Praise God! It's a small world. lol

So, Michael, do you believe that "head cover" is manditory today... or do you believe that Paul was applying the higher principles of modesty and submission with relation to head coverings among the first century Corinthians?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

By no means was I insinuating someone should take us out to eat. I realize that MANY Church people equate fellowship with eating a meal. I would rather get together and just get to know someone in their walk with Jesus any day and go eat after I get to know them.

The part about not wanting someone to come to your house you dont know is easily dealt with. There is a Church building right? Why cant it stay open for fellowship between saints? Your statement about never being invited for fellowship on one hand is shocking.

Acts 2:42 says they continued steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine, fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer. Jesus said by your love they will know you are mine. A deep, genuine love is one of the marks of a New Testament Church if not THE mark.

On the other hand Im not surprised. When I was in the Church System thats what I saw mostly especially among "Apostolics".

To them fellowship means coming to the Church building and hearing sermons a few times a week. My Apostolic Pastor appointed me an elder in the Church before I had even been to his house. When I pressed him to get together he ok'd it.

The Deacon who had been there 3 years told me he had NEVER been to his house! Well in a years time we went to his house once and he came to mine one. Hardly what I would call Biblical New Testament fellowship.

Another Apostolic Church I went to the Pastor would preach an hour and a half, throwing in some stories along the way about the good ole days in Kentucky. I remember after sitting there on a pew for that long starving for personal fellowship and him saying "arent we having sweet fellowship in the house of God?"

Sorry friend but I came to Jesus during the "Jesus Movement" of the 70's. We had real fellowship. We would meet many times and go pass out tracts and preach the word. Then we would go to someones house or even meet in the Coffee House for hours of fellowship and worshipping the Lord.

After experiencing that the Apostolic System seems really dead to me.

"Hot sermons" are king there. Church attendance is considered to be a holy thing. The Church building sits there empty most of the week while people hunger for the reality of New Testament fellowship.

To me its just pathetic.

You said it better than I ever thought it.

Fellowshipping outside of worshiping our Lord and Savior is crucial to the Christian community. It does the bride of Christ no good if we all go our separate ways after worship and not be a part of daily fellowship. Not to mention that some get together for their own fellowship during the week and leave others out who need fellowship with the body.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Praise God! It's a small world. lol

So, Michael, do you believe that "head cover" is manditory today... or do you believe that Paul was applying the higher principles of modesty and submission with relation to head coverings among the first century Corinthians?

Baptism was not cultural. Neither was communion or the sermon on the mount. If we are disciples its for us. Women are taught wrong on both extremes concerning the headcovering.

Apostolics teach its your hair-never cut it.

Most all else says its cultural.

Paul says women are to to cover their heads WHEN THEY PRAY OR WHEN THEY PROPHESY. Thats the context. Not every minute. When they pray. When they prophesy.

Every New Testament Church in Pauls day did this. He said other than what he taught, they had no such custom.

[Falla39]

The Corinthian women coming into the church might need to "cover" their heads because they didn't have their God-given covering". But Paul is instructing them, now that they had become Christians. The churches of God had no such customs of cutting their hair off as did the women of Corinth. The Corinthian men needed to know to cut their hair. The Christians should already know the customs of the churches of God.
Does that not make more sense! Perhaps it is how one chooses to view it! Is Paul speaking to the Corinthians coming into the church or is he speaking to the Christians who ALREADY know the customs of the churches of GOD!

Falla39

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

I respect your desires for fellowship brother, though I don't totally understand it. Not everyone is wired that way, and for me... I've never craved personal fellowship... just not my thing. I've been satisfied with church events, some outreach events, and some fellowship meals from time to time. I wasn't raised, as I said before, where church people fellowshipped outside the church... and honestly, the only people we ever "fellowshipped" with was family, and that was very, very, very seldom. We kept to ourselves at home, and that was how we were happy... just how our family is wired.

So, I'm just asking you to realize, not everyone starves for it, as you said you did. Some of us, the desire never even crosses our minds... and if it were seen as a needful thing, we'd have to force ourselves to do it as it's waaaayyyy outside of our comfort zone.

Im sorry you dont understand my need for fellowship. Yet I realize why. The Apostolic Churches discovered Oneness and Acts 2:38 truth. Thats great.

Yet because of that they think they teach the full gospel. WRONG!.

Oneness and Acts 2:38 is very important. Yet all the truth is very important. Thats what is wrong with Apostolic Churches. They think they have went farther than others and so they are content with just being thought of as "Apostolic".

In reality they have a lot to still come into.

Love is not something any of us are "wired into".

It is a fruit of the Spirit.

To NOT do it is a sin. A big bad sin.

Love is not just nice feelings toward people. It is ACTIVE INVOLVMENT.

Jesus commanded "Love one another as I have loved you". Jesus spent time with them being A SHEPHERD.

Many Pastors, Apostolic or otherwise are NOT SHEPHERDS. They are professional Preachers. A Shepherd is one who spends time with and cares for a flock.

Paul said this to the saints at Thessalonica.

3:11 Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you; 3:12 and the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we also do toward you, 3:13 to the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints. 1 Thess. 3:11-13

To commit love is to grow in holiness. To not commit love leaves one with something to be blamed for.

Love is the apex of perfection!
Colossians 3:12-13

3:12 Put on therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, humility, and perseverance; 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, if any man has a complaint against any; even as Christ forgave you, so you also do.

3:14 Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection.

See what I mean?

Paul also said:

1 Cor. 13: 12-13

Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known. 13:13 But now faith, hope, and love remain—these three. The greatest of these is love.

Love cannot take place by living our life alone. People are not taught the difference between love and SELFish living. The SELF ish person may not do things that are in themselves sinful.

But the problem is they are SELFish. They live to themselves. Love is produced through good times but also times of breaking, suffering offence, and forgiving.

Now Church life according to Apostic teaching ought to look like this:

2:42 They continued steadfastly in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and prayer. Acts 2:42

Im not spending this time writing to condemn anyone. Just to set the record straight.

Love is HUGE in the Kingdom of Christ

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

You said it better than I ever thought it.

Fellowshipping outside of worshiping our Lord and Savior is crucial to the Christian community. It does the bride of Christ no good if we all go our separate ways after worship and not be a part of daily fellowship. Not to mention that some get together for their own fellowship during the week and leave others out who need fellowship with the body.

PTL amen! Yet another Pastor I knew taught on "fellowship" for 8 weeks in row. Several times during that I suggested we get together and have some. He said sure Bro. Mike we will.

Then he called for a bonfire get together at his house. Well the Church did get together but it was still disappointing because we did not come together around the word.

It is in fellowship around Jesus that our vision of the Kingdom can grow. Some peoples vision of the Kingdom is just going to the meeting and hearing a Preacher .