Interesting Facts about US Consumption

[Socialite]

aegsm, I grew up on food stamps. I remember the humility in paying for my mother's groceries with them. I had a household larger than 10. We lived on the "other side of town." I had friends in the same socio-economic status. I too have been there, done that and still have some of the same dingy shirts. I lived temporarily in a hotel. I know what a job layoff can do to a family. I saw the effects of poverty on siblings that are so marred and a mess by the oppression that comes with it. Being younger may have been a privilege after all.

I'm not creating a diversion. I can go into any Christian forum or hang-out and talk about poor, and the majority of my fellow Evangelicals harbor similar views as yours.

I can careless about your version or mine. I care about what's right.

Hoovie, I certainly am not suggesting a good work ethic is the alternative. The opposite of entitlement may be laziness, but there's a lot on the subject of poverty that's in the middle, not the margins. Most of the forums like this camp out ideas and thoughts about those margins.

And Hoovie, I can't tell you how many homeless people we serve in our City are "regulars." Some of them are cold, thankless, and yes, entitled. One of them spit out our Christmas dinner and complained that it wasn't seasoned to his liking. Yet we loved him. In fact, more than the dinner, that's what we were there for. These fellows have become so calloused and bitter with life, feel helpless and lonely, and see through the phoniness of youth groups that come once a year to pass out their food. I don't justify his thankfulness and indecency, but I understand it. And I'm always praying "God, break my heart for what breaks yours." There's not a single one of them that are not in His image and that He doesn't love.

I received grace so undeserved and so generously, and I give out in the same measure.

Grace heals and changes. It's light and salt (pun intended) that makes a difference. Some of our "regulars" have made progress, getting into assisted living, job training, some just making the simple step of feeling loved and respected. Some will continue to suffer with their medical conditions, alcoholism and addictions... and others like a few I know will rise beyond their circumstance and be one of those who serves alongside us to places he once lived.

Hoovie, I'm not questioning your personal outreach to the poor. I'm really not. I don't know you. But the attitude some have toward poverty in general (which is not even a fraction represented by those who live in populated shelters and streets) is ill-informed and/or informed by a prejudice of capitalism that demands people earn the treatment they receive.

[Hoovie]

Very well Socialite, I recognize the spirit in which you write and I can receive that.


Money and giving to the poor fixes a small part of the problem, I understand that. But I also know true ministry demands so much more. Quite honestly, writing a check might be the easy part.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

One of them spit out our Christmas dinner and complained that it wasn't seasoned to his liking. .

Sorry, I can't resist this...

This man quite simply was not hungry!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

This is all subjective though...

Speaking of myself when I was poor... I would much rather dig ditches at minimum wage than take money for free. However, if I had exhausted all resources, I would take money to feed my family. I had never reached that point. Many, (and of course not all) are simply not willing to work hard for peanuts, but would rather seek "entitlements". I am just saying thats was not me. If I was disabled or lost my limbs I would view it differently I am sure. Had I had a sense of entitlement concerning my bills I may still be justifying food stamps. I don't know, but I do think my mindset in part assisted my assent out of poverty.

If you think I am cold or don't give to the poor you would be wrong. I pay thousands of dollars into these government programs and yet multiple times I have given hundreds of dollars to families I know were hurting. If they showed a sense of entitlement I am not so sure I would give though.

A big issue I have is far too many are too proud to take money from someone individually yet have no problem taking it from Uncle Sam. The big difference when you give to someone directly, is they KNOW who they are getting it from and often will even thank them. When it is taken from Uncle Sam they may (but usually not) thank the politician who voted for the program but they NEVER thank the tax payer who provided the funds. In fact, they (the tax payer) are hated all the more!

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I think we need to go back and define "personal attack."

There's nothing PERSONAL about anything citizen has said!

I never said any of those things and yet I was singled out for as someone issuing a "personal attack". I wouldn't have even couched the conversation using the term "attack".
And you're entitled to what you think a personal attack is. If someone says Chrisitans are gluttoness, greedy, and ungrateful, I just might take that a little personal, after all, I do consider myself a Christian. sheesh........

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

A big issue I have is far too many are too proud to take money from someone individually yet have no problem taking it from Uncle Sam. The big difference when you give to someone directly, is they KNOW who they are getting it from and often will even thank them. When it is taken from Uncle Sam they may (but usually not) thank the politician who voted for the program but they NEVER thank the tax payer who provided the fund. In fact, they (the tax payer) are hated all the more!

Right. The government involvement does muddy the waters.

I also find it interesting that liberals will very often believe it's the government's responsibility to take care of the poor, while conservatives actually believe in giving to the poor regardless.

This is well documented in how much Liberals versus Conservatives give to charitable organizations.

[sandie]

Originally Posted by houston

nice, sandie is offended by something Jesus rebuked in Revelation. lol lol

You know, Houston, if you have a problem with me, would you just like to spell it out?
Or would you just like to hide behind lols?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Very well Socialite, I recognize the spirit in which you write and I can receive that.


Money and giving to the poor fixes a small part of the problem, I understand that. But I also know true ministry demands so much more. Quite honestly, writing a check might be the easy part.

Absolutely.

[citizen]

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister America:
pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by sandie

I never said any of those things and yet I was singled out for as someone issuing a "personal attack". I wouldn't have even couched the conversation using the term "attack".
And you're entitled to what you think a personal attack is. If someone says Chrisitans are gluttoness, greedy, and ungrateful, I just might take that a little personal, after all, I do consider myself a Christian. sheesh........

You can take it personal, that doesn't make the statement itself personal.

Had he said: "Sandie, you are a glutton," then that would be a personal attack.

And I'm pretty sure that's not exactly what he said.