Why Acts 2:38?

[Aquila]

Hebrews 6:1-3 (New Living Translation)
1 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

And all God's children said... amen.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I haven't heard anyone say that Acts 2:38 teaches that speaking with tongues is the initial sign that a believer has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I'm certainly not forcing tongues into that verse.

I don't understand you here, Mizpeh. Could you explain further? It looks like tongues is the initial sign that the believer has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

How do you reconcile Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45-46?

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."


10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,...."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hebrews 6:1-3 (New Living Translation)
1 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2 You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

And all God's children said... amen.

AMEN!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You've either missed or ignored yesterday's discussions. Peter told the people "how to be saved" in Acts 2:21.

Out of context.

He was quoting Joel's prophecy, not telling them how to be saved. He was not even telling them at that point they need to be saved. He was explaining why tongues were occurring. At that point in his words, no one was wondering how to be saved, for salvation was not the issue yet.

After they heard Peter preach Jesus, they asked how is all that involved in salvation, and how do they acquire salvation.

He then went on to advise them that the Messiah had come and gone and that this nation (Israel) has crucified the One that God had made "both Lord and Christ."

It was at that point that the question came up, "What must we do?"

If the question had been "What must we do to be saved?" Peter would have told them to clean out their ears and pay attention... "I already told you that!" (Acts 2:21). He even uses the word "saved" here to clear up any misconceptions of the issue.

No, again you are out of context. the subject was not salvation when Poeter quoted Joel. The people had asked something, but it was not how to be saved. They asked WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THESE TONGUES?

Act 2:12 KJV And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? (TONGUES)

Act 2:16 KJV But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Verse 21 was still part of Joel's quote.

Act 2:6-15 KJV Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. (7) And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? (8) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? (9) Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, (10) Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, (11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (12) And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? (13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. (14) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. (16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

JOEL'S QUOTE (17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (19) And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: (21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

(22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Peter was not saying anything about salvation at this point, but answering their questions about the tongues. After he answered their question on TONGUES, Peter proceeded to lead them to salvation. He was able to INTRODUCE SALVATION, of which he spoke after the quote, because Joel answered their questions about tongues and then mentioned salvation at the end of that same quote. In this way, Peter THEN shifted the discussion to salvation.

You are confusing these words...

Act 2:8 KJV And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Act 2:11-12 KJV Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (12) And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

...with ...

Act 2:37 KJV Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

, ...as though the first two questions were salvation and not the last in verse 37.

The question that prompted Joel's quote was not how to be saved.

To insert the word "saved" later does harm to Peter's who point about the nation of Israel and the corporate "guilt" concerning the death of this innocent man (Jesus).

It does deal with the corporate guilt, but general salvation removes that guilt, too!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

The problem is that OP want to take Acts 2:38 and place it in a vacuum. They don't recognize that Peter had many other things to say during that sermon, (As is evident by Mizpeh thinking he was speaking to someone else two verses later)

I'm not following what you are saying.

They discard clear statement that contain direct questions on salvation, even in the book of Acts (Jailer asking, "What must I do to be saved"). They explain away Paul's writings as being written to those already saved (I guess God could not see far enough into the future to know that his Word would be read by sinners.)

The overwhelming evidence in Scripture about salvation is clear and unmistakable, faith alone.

The overwhelming evidence is that we are saved by faith not by works (especially the works of the law of Moses). Repentance and the baptisms are all done in response to faith in Christ.

The jailers question is the same question that was asked by those in Acts 2:37, it had the same intent, imo. Both were looking for salvation. One was keeping holy, innocent men in jail and the others had been accused of killing a holy, innocent man.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is a manner of speaking, and regards salvation nonetheless.

They must secure their own salvation. That does not mean we are saved by works, but means we must secure to ourselves the salvation God provided by grace through faith by doing our part in the covenant. Every covenant has a part for both parties to play. This manner of speaking simply focused on the listeners' part.

Would you claim it is not about salvation? Why?

If it's not about salvation then Acts 2:38 is only applicable to those who directly were involved in the death of Christ and isn't really Peter telling them how to be saved but something else. That explanation doesn't make any sense. Telling them to repent (of their sin of killing the Christ) makes sense but what does being baptized and receiving the Holy Spirit have to do with being responsible for killing Christ?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

jfrog, it is like saying...


2Co 6:17 KJV Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

1Ti 4:16 KJV Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

2Co 5:20 KJV Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Good point. They may not have the exact same words, but the meaning is the same.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Mizpeh,

Is this a true statement?

We are concluding that after we have followed Paul's instructions of repenting and being baptized, that if the gift [that was promised to us] is not received by speaking in tongues, we are still lost.

Those who were convicted after hearing Peter's ad hoc sermon asked him what they should do. They were accused of killing the Jewish Messiah. Peter tells them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins and they likewise will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit just like those disciples who they had a few minutes earlier asked "What meaneth this" about.

Then Luke states that " And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. "

I'm assuming from this account that everyone who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit spoke with other tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance just like the disciples did that were standing before them. I honestly don't see anywhere in this passage that states if someone isn't baptized with the Holy Spirit that they are lost. We would have to look elsewhere to make that assertion.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Christianity in general doesn't feel that they have changed the answer.

Repent - check
Be baptized - check
God will fill you with his spirit - check

That's mainstream belief. They're not ignoring, or changing, the answer to the question.

Repentance isn't a check for some mainstream churches. There was (and maybe still is) a debate called the Lordship salvation debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

But don't you agree that the majority of mainstream Christianity believes that repentance and baptism is necessary?

Maybe repentance but not water baptism.