Dan Scott's Thought on Trinity

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Reading his blog I don't think he has any idea what he is. You know more about him than he does.

I'm really just speculating on what I do know. It is going to be very hard for anyone who has had a good oneness upbringing and foundation to convert to pure trinitarianism/true tri-theism. It has happened, but it is rare and I don't think Dan is there.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

For whatever reason, Dan decided to align himself with the Anglican group and I doubt very seriously if it had anything to do with godhead theology. My guess is that he was able to overlook their view of the godhead in favor of something he felt he could identify with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to get robe or a censer, but Dan's roots are clearly oneness to the core. I really don't think he's a trinitarian.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I'm really just speculating on what I do know. It is going to be very hard for anyone who has had a good oneness upbringing and foundation to convert to pure trinitarianism/true tri-theism. It has happened, but it is rare and I don't think Dan is there.

You don't believe he's trinitarian. Fair enough.

But I'm getting the sense that there are some of his defenders who also DON'T WANT to believe he's a Trinitarian.

Kinda like the mother who refuses to believe that it was her boy that broke into the liquor store... despite the mountain of evidence against him.

Denial. is a terrible thing.

[Traci]

I started attending Christ Church in 2000 (Dan had already left for AZ), I took the Welcome to Christ Church class which Pastor Hardwick and Stan Mitchell taught at the time. I remember Pastor Hardwick saying that he believes Trinitarians and Oneness really believe the same thing they are just saying it differently and he believes that is one of the greatest deceptions of the devil to cause confusion and strife amoung the churches. We moved right after Dan came back but I would personally say that Dan would think this also. I believe he still consideres himself to be pentecostal. See in the denominational world lines are not always drawn in the sand. Just my thoughts.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Traci

I started attending Christ Church in 2000 (Dan had already left for AZ), I took the Welcome to Christ Church class which Pastor Hardwick and Stan Mitchell taught at the time. I remember Pastor Hardwick saying that he believes Trinitarians and Oneness really believe the same thing they are just saying it differently and he believes that is one of the greatest deceptions of the devil to cause confusion and strife amoung the churches. We moved right after Dan came back but I would personally say that Dan would think this also. I believe he still consideres himself to be pentecostal. See in the denominational world lines are not always drawn in the sand. Just my thoughts.

I agree. With many of the trinitarians that I hang out with I don't say things like I deny the trinity because then I would lose all credibility with them. I have believed for some time now that we basically believe the same thing but our descriptions of God are different.

I still have a problem ending a prayer by saying, in the name of the F, S, and HS and I believe that baptism in Jesus name is the correct formula.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Traci

I started attending Christ Church in 2000 (Dan had already left for AZ), I took the Welcome to Christ Church class which Pastor Hardwick and Stan Mitchell taught at the time. I remember Pastor Hardwick saying that he believes Trinitarians and Oneness really believe the same thing they are just saying it differently and he believes that is one of the greatest deceptions of the devil to cause confusion and strife amoung the churches. We moved right after Dan came back but I would personally say that Dan would think this also. I believe he still consideres himself to be pentecostal. See in the denominational world lines are not always drawn in the sand. Just my thoughts.

Well I respect Pastor Hardwick as being a minister who loves God etc., but if he did indeed say this he is sadly mistaken. There are very significant differences between the Oneness and Trinity understandings of the nature of God.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I've seen Catholics preachers who don't fit into the "Catholic box", but they're still Catholics.

I know Apostolics that does not fit the Apostolic box either and I know people that fit the Apostolic box but ain't Apostolic. Doesn't matter. He does not fit that mold from the preaching I have heard. It seems that people love to try and crucify him and throw stones at him and they don't know him.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well I respect Pastor Hardwick as being a minister who loves God etc., but if he did indeed say this he is sadly mistaken. There are very significant differences between the Oneness and Trinity understandings of the nature of God.

HAHA....this is an example of how conditioning can trip a person out. Some people are so conditioned that there are "very signifigant differences" between Oneness and Trinity. Perhaps in your mind it is very different, but here in reality where I live it is not. A Trinitarian explaining the Godhead is similar to how a Oneness person does.

It is kinda like a Oneness person and a Trinitarian are both looking at a quarter. They are both trying to explain what the other person is looking at while describing the side that only they can see. Both are looking at the same quarter, but different points of view and doing it with different verbage. You might not agree and I am sure you won't but that it how it is.

[ManOfWord]

I also have sat through a "get acquainted" class at CC. I made a visit to Bro. Hardwick and spent 3 days with him there when Stan was there. We had great conversations and I know where he was coming from. Similar to things I have stated regarding viewpoints on the godhead. Bro. Hardwick IS on target when he states that there are many who call themselves trinitarian who are really oneness. I have experienced this myself and I am oneness to the core.

To be fair, I have also experienced folks who were clearly tri-theists in their theology. I am not trying to paint with a broad brush, I am only stating my experiences.

I just taught a new member class this weekend to about 40 people and when we went over Jesus' name baptism, NO ONE had a problem with it and some were definitely from trinitarian backgrounds. I also have very few people who have difficulty with my teaching on the oneness of God. One reason is that I am not judgemental to those who don't understand the things we "apostolics" do. When that barrier is removed, it is amazing what people can receive!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I also have sat through a "get acquainted" class at CC. I made a visit to Bro. Hardwick and spent 3 days with him there when Stan was there. We had great conversations and I know where he was coming from. Similar to things I have stated regarding viewpoints on the godhead. Bro. Hardwick IS on target when he states that there are many who call themselves trinitarian who are really oneness. I have experienced this myself and I am oneness to the core.

To be fair, I have also experienced folks who were clearly tri-theists in their theology. I am not trying to paint with a broad brush, I am only stating my experiences.

I just taught a new member class this weekend to about 40 people and when we went over Jesus' name baptism, NO ONE had a problem with it and some were definitely from trinitarian backgrounds. I also have very few people who have difficulty with my teaching on the oneness of God. One reason is that I am not judgemental to those who don't understand the things we "apostolics" do. When that barrier is removed, it is amazing what people can receive!

This is exactly what I am trying to say, MOW said it better.

[Traci]

Besides baptism one thing I see different between oneness/trinitarian is that they believe that "the Son" Jesus was from the beginning of time along with God--I just don't see it that way--I was taught that Jesus did not exist until he was born--Jesus is God in the flesh--he is not like a brain with 3 bodies and that is how I understand some trinitarians believe. I don't know--I am like Bro. Epley on this--why do they make something that is simple seem so complex?? I do believe that many of them do not really understand what they believe because they tell me they only believe in one God???? My question at this moment----does God really expect us to understand everything about everything before we can be saved???