Charismatic Sweep

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So "Charismatic" equates to evil and "Apostolic" to righteousness?

The Greek χάρισμα means to give grace, giving a gift without expecting a return. Charismatic on the other hand covers a group of people who believe everything from speaking in tongues to anointing inanimate objects with olive oil. The services have some flaky effeminacy within the men, and the females can get pretty MASCULINE (misunderstanding Debra's role in the OT). They tend to see a devil behind every bush. Generational curses are a big tool used to keep people under the power of leadership witchcraft. Yet, Charismatic as used by secular society blankets all tongue talkers. Apostolic on the other hand simply means to do as the Apostles prescribed. While some who call themselves Apostolic may be Cruzermatic, a Charismatic as I described can't be considered Apostolic.

[Bro Flame]

What's wrong with dressing modestly?

I agree that a "dress code", as some of you call it, is not salvation, nor is holiness necessarily.

BUT we do know there are scriptural evidence of attire. This again arises the constant differentiating of inner and outer holiness, when the two most coexist to equal Biblical holiness.

[Bro Flame]

Charismatic is generically used by modern Christendom to banner a faith, denomination, organization, or individual that believes in the validity of the spiritual gifts still being in operation. Now, to the variance these individuals or doctrines will validate such spiritual gifts will be diverse, but the word Charismatic is usually lazily used to unite them all.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Charismatic refers to a movement. A movement which has certain spiritual attributes. The writer is concerned about many of those spiritual attributes infiltrating Oneness Pentecost. In some case, many cases, taking over various areas of oneness Pentecost. Unfortunately much of the Apostolic world is not close enough to God to discern the spirits infiltrating.

Having been around the 70's version of the Charismatic movement may not be the same experience as being around it today. My first Pentecostal Church experiences were among Trins.

I liked the fervency of prayer among them. That was about it. When I first discovered the Charismatic movement I perceived it as being deeper than the Pentecostal groups I had been around. I much preferred the style of worship as in those days it was getting much of their songs from the Jesus movement.

The teachers were more interesting than the Pentecostal Preachers. They would try to stay close to scripture and rightly divide it as compared to the shotgun style of the Pentecostals.

I met several groups in those days that I found very interesting. When I began to engage with Oneness people I saw right away they they had more scripture concerning the truth of the Godhead and new birth. This seemed really deep after being around the Charismatic and Pentecostal Trinitarians.

About 40 years down the road now I dont see much of what some others see about "Charismatic" taking over the Oneness movement. The Churches I have known and been part of in recent years ARE moving to a more Charismatic worship. IMO this is a good thing. Altho not as spiritual as the early songs of the Charismatic movement TO ME they are usually more so than the Pentecostal ones.

Now I have only been in probably 20 Oneness Churches since having embraced the doctrine so my perspective is not as great as some of yours. I do read articles by Apostolics and watch internet videos of them. I saw more of the gifts of the Spirit among the Charismatic movement than the Apostolic. I dont mean so much through the Preachers but through the believers themselves.

The Apostolics have more truth on the Godhead and new birth which as I said earlier was what drew me to them. In other areas of doctrine the Apostolics dont appear to be going any deeper than Charismatics as they agree with each other on pre trib rapture and immortal soul.

If one takes away the outward standards code Apostolics dont come across to me as being particularly more "spiritually minded" than the Charismatics.

True they have more big name obviously false teachers. Yet their movement is much larger than them. I mean there are many among them who are as offended by the false teachers as we are.

As far as I can tell in scripture God shows he accepts people by giving them the Holy Ghost. While Im pretty sure a percentage of them dont have the Spirit but the same can be said of the Apostolics.

Where I DO SEE a lot of agreement between Charimatics and Apostolic (apart from dress standards) is the matters of holiness and obedience. Both of the movements teach the "finished work" false doctrine. Both movements (in general) oppose the doctrine of perfection as given by Jesus.

This I have seen over and over.

[Esaias]

Neither the modern charismatic movement nor the modern oneness pentecostal movement teach the FINISHED WORK DOCTRINE OF INSTANTANEOUS ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION VIA FAITH IN THE WORK OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST. Instead, both teach the Baptist view of progressive but never finished this side of the grave sanctification with death of the body providing the final entire sanctifying perfection.

You have had this explained to you repeatedly but you persist in your mischaracterizations. It's why I have lost a lot of respect for your teaching ability. That and your refusal to answer hard questions about your doctrines.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Having been around the 70's version of the Charismatic movement may not be the same experience as being around it today. My first Pentecostal Church experiences were among Trins.

I liked the fervency of prayer among them. That was about it. When I first discovered the Charismatic movement I perceived it as being deeper than the Pentecostal groups I had been around. I much preferred the style of worship as in those days it was getting much of their songs from the Jesus movement.

The teachers were more interesting than the Pentecostal Preachers. They would try to stay close to scripture and rightly divide it as compared to the shotgun style of the Pentecostals.

I met several groups in those days that I found very interesting. When I began to engage with Oneness people I saw right away they they had more scripture concerning the truth of the Godhead and new birth. This seemed really deep after being around the Charismatic and Pentecostal Trinitarians.

About 40 years down the road now I dont see much of what some others see about "Charismatic" taking over the Oneness movement. The Churches I have known and been part of in recent years ARE moving to a more Charismatic worship. IMO this is a good thing. Altho not as spiritual as the early songs of the Charismatic movement TO ME they are usually more so than the Pentecostal ones.

Now I have only been in probably 20 Oneness Churches since having embraced the doctrine so my perspective is not as great as some of yours. I do read articles by Apostolics and watch internet videos of them. I saw more of the gifts of the Spirit among the Charismatic movement than the Apostolic. I dont mean so much through the Preachers but through the believers themselves.

The Apostolics have more truth on the Godhead and new birth which as I said earlier was what drew me to them. In other areas of doctrine the Apostolics dont appear to be going any deeper than Charismatics as they agree with each other on pre trib rapture and immortal soul.

If one takes away the outward standards code Apostolics dont come across to me as being particularly more "spiritually minded" than the Charismatics.

True they have more big name obviously false teachers. Yet their movement is much larger than them. I mean there are many among them who are as offended by the false teachers as we are.

As far as I can tell in scripture God shows he accepts people by giving them the Holy Ghost. While Im pretty sure a percentage of them dont have the Spirit but the same can be said of the Apostolics.

Where I DO SEE a lot of agreement between Charimatics and Apostolic (apart from dress standards) is the matters of holiness and obedience. Both of the movements teach the "finished work" false doctrine. Both movements (in general) oppose the doctrine of perfection as given by Jesus.

This I have seen over and over.

I read the first 2 paragraphs.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I read the first 2 paragraphs.

Lol that’s funny. I actually did the same thing and when I saw your post it cracked me up!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Neither the modern charismatic movement nor the modern oneness pentecostal movement teach the FINISHED WORK DOCTRINE OF INSTANTANEOUS ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION VIA FAITH IN THE WORK OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST. Instead, both teach the Baptist view of progressive but never finished this side of the grave sanctification with death of the body providing the final entire sanctifying perfection.

You have had this explained to you repeatedly but you persist in your mischaracterizations. It's why I have lost a lot of respect for your teaching ability. That and your refusal to answer hard questions about your doctrines.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I read the first 2 paragraphs.

I got as far as "having been around the 70's." Once he mentions that in one of his posts. It is usually the same old stuff I have read a thousand times. He needs to get a life past the internet. Then after he has currently achieved "something" Then come back and tell us how's it going in the 2000s.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I read the first 2 paragraphs.

I read “Having been around the 70’s...”