Oneness vs Trinity (Can someone give a non-bias)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

So, God the Father is the Son of God?

God became the Son (human incarnation) while continuing His transcendent existence as God (Father of the Son)...of course you already knew that from previous conversations how Father and Son are distinct

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God became the Son (human incarnation) while continuing His transcendent existence as God (Father of the Son)...of course you already knew that from previous conversations how Father and Son are distinct

No doubt the Father and the Son are distinct, and Yes, there's been tens of thousands of words about this yet the oneness explanation remains fuzzy, at best, IMO.

I asked if God the Father is the Son of God and the answer changed the verbiage of the question. "God became the Son" isn't really an answer to the question of is God the Father the Son of God. This view that Jesus God the Father is Jesus the Son of God the Father isn't scriptural at all. Introducing vague terms as "transcendent existence" is simply an avoidance of discussing the issue.

So, the question remains, is God the Father the Son of God?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

No doubt the Father and the Son are distinct, and Yes, there's been tens of thousands of words about this yet the oneness explanation remains fuzzy, at best, IMO.

That's your opinion. I disagree and the fact is it's been detailed and explained in-depth ad nauseum

I asked if God the Father is the Son of God and the answer changed the verbiage of the question.

The answer is and always was Father and Son are distinct so NO the Son is not the Father and vice versa...I've said that before

"God became the Son" isn't really an answer to the question of is God the Father the Son of God.

First of all I did not say "God became the Son"....I said a LOT more in explanation as to HOW Father and Son are distinct. What you just did was take me out of context and ignore the rest of what I posted

This view that Jesus God the Father is Jesus the Son of God the Father isn't scriptural at all. Introducing vague terms as "transcendent existence" is simply an avoidance of discussing the issue.

Now you are attributing to me words I never said and you've done that before...rather than deal with what I said you chose to IGNORE it and attribute to me something I never said and then attack it.

Classic Strawman argument

Transcendent isn't a vague term unless you just never heard it before...that word and idea forms the basis of discussing the issue. If you didn't want to discuss it with me then please stop asking me questions.

So, the question remains, is God the Father the Son of God?

No it doesn't remain. Like before I answered you and like before you chose to ignore my response

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The answer is and always was Father and Son are distinct so NO the Son is not the Father and vice versa...I've said that before

First of all I did not say "God became the Son"....I said a LOT more in explanation as to HOW Father and Son are distinct. What you just did was take me out of context and ignore the rest of what I posted

But you did say that "God became the Son". Post #61

Transcendent isn't a vague term unless you just never heard it before...that word and idea forms the basis of discussing the issue. If you didn't want to discuss it with me then please stop asking me questions.

Stop responding to my posts then!

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

When people use words like "who" it's understood as a person and "which" as a thing (like a body)


So when you say "When I say "son", I'm specifically referring to the humanity of Jesus (who had a definite beginning).", it sounds like Unitarianism (2 persons God and the Son who is just a man) or Nestorianism (turning the two natures of Jesus into two persons, God and man, Father and Son)

Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to. I'm not well versed in Unitarianism or Nestotarianism (never even heard of this one before), so you'll have to pardon me for not knowing what "language" to watch out for. I believe I did explain myself, regardless of my choice of "who" versus "which".

Originally Posted by seekerman

So, God the Father is the Son of God?

Allow me to put it to you this way, seekerman. When the Bible speaks of the son (either as son of God or son or man), it's specifically referring to the humanity of Jesus. However, when the Bible refers to Jesus by name, it could be referring to either His humanity or His deity (which is, being God, our Father), depending on the context used. So Jesus is both God and man, but when using the title of 'son', it specifically means His humanity.

This verse has been abused by trinitarians for ages, but it is applicable here:

I Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The great mystery of Godliness is how God was manifest in the flesh. How exactly this works, is beyond our understanding. It does not mean, however, that we cannot understand who God is (which is what the trinitarians twist the Scripture to mean).

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Allow me to put it to you this way, seekerman. When the Bible speaks of the son (either as son of God or son or man), it's specifically referring to the humanity of Jesus. However, when the Bible refers to Jesus by name, it could be referring to either His humanity or His deity (which is, being God, our Father), depending on the context used. So Jesus is both God and man, but when using the title of 'son', it specifically means His humanity.

This doesn't answer the question is God the Father the Son of God though? If, as you claim, that "son" = 'humanity', then the question would be is God the Father the humanity (Son) of God?

This verse has been abused by trinitarians for ages, but it is applicable here:

I Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The great mystery of Godliness is how God was manifest in the flesh. How exactly this works, is beyond our understanding. It does not mean, however, that we cannot understand who God is (which is what the trinitarians twist the Scripture to mean).

When a theology suggests that God is humanity while at the same time being deity, God is humanity and the Father of His own self as His own Son, that theology becomes suspect.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

But you did say that "God became the Son". Post #61

yes God BECAME the Son. So now He exists as both Father (God transcendent) and Son (God incarnate)

See the distinction???

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

yes God BECAME the Son. So now He exists as both Father (God transcendent) and Son (God incarnate)

See the distinction???

Yes, I see the distinction between God the Father and the Son of God, but I fail to understand the oneness view that the Son of God is actually His God the Father, God the Father. Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father, in scripture. Jesus is the Son of God the Father. God the Father isn't His Son, Jesus.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Yes, I see the distinction between God the Father and the Son of God, but I fail to understand the oneness view that the Son of God is actually His God the Father, God the Father. .

Yes I understand you fail to understand it but the fact is I've shown from the bible Jesus is both Human and Divine and I've explained it to you how

BTW I didn't say "The Son is God the Father"

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes I understand you fail to understand it but the fact is I've shown from the bible Jesus is both Human and Divine and I've explained it to you how

BTW I didn't say "The Son is God the Father"

No, you haven't explained how, scripturally or otherwise, God is one, but at the same time is also two 'somethings', Jesus deity and Jesus humanity, distinct from each other but really the same person or entity.

If Jesus the Son of God isn't Jesus God the Father who is He? I'd like an explanation without you reverting to 'transcendent existence' but instead explain exactly how Jesus the Son of God is related to His God and Father, God the Father but they're really not each other but at the same time are really each other.