Err on the side of caution? - Page 7

MissBrattified · #61 07-02-2010, 01:11 PM

Sometimes I think that certain standards are more like a disguise imposed by a third party. The pastor or leaders can pass out a list of rules, and as long as everyone looks uniform, it appears that all the saints are on the right path. It's almost an ostrich mentality. When you teach principles and leave specifics up to individuals, you allow individual weaknesses to become obvious--which should be okay, because then you have a teaching opportunity.

Some pastors are more concerned with a uniform look so they can look good to their friends than they are actually strengthening each saint's relationship with God.

When I found myself in a church where I was no longer required to live by certain standards (meaning: no one was beating me over the head with them), I went through a period of time where I had to sort things out for myself. It demanded self-examination, Bible study and basically growing up. All Christians need to have that metamorphosis, that transition from milk to meat. Unfortunately, some saints will be bottle fed all their lives, all their decisions will be made for them, and they will never have to approach God independently or approach His Word with fresh eyes.

Withdrawn · #62 07-02-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

When I found myself in a church where I was no longer required to live by certain standards (meaning: no one was beating me over the head with them), I went through a period of time where I had to sort things out for myself. It demanded self-examination, Bible study and basically growing up. All Christians need to have that metamorphosis, that transition from milk to meat. Unfortunately, some saints will be bottle fed all their lives, all their decisions will be made for them, and they will never have to approach God independently or approach His Word with fresh eyes.

Honest question here... meant to provoke some genuine introspection for us all... and not directed specifically at Miss B...

If we never independently approach God or His Word, but remain bottle-fed by our pastors, are we connected to the true vine? Or is our relationship with a vicar?

pastorrick1959 · #63 07-02-2010, 01:30 PM

i just ran over this post a little and seen where fear was a bad thing to have seemed like what the theme was of alot that ddint want standards ,,,\

well the bible says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living god .
to fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell..theere is many more.

the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom .if we fear god ,,a reverence will be in us for him ....we love him and live forn him out of love ,,but also knowing that god will punish those that disobey his words...

our parents did the same ,, i loved my dad , and i knew he loved me ,,,but i also knew if i misbehaved ,,trouble was coming my way ,in many forms lol.

fear is not a bad thing ////but a lack of fear is terrible .. breeds self thoughts ,anything will do thoughts ,as long as i try a little . my way is ok ..how i think it should be is ok...

WRONG...gods way is the only way ,,,to true life and peace ,, godly living make s god happy as it is a show of respect to him ,for us to live by his word.

pastorrick1959 · #64 07-02-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

Honest question here... meant to provoke some genuine introspection for us all... and not directed specifically at Miss B...

If we never independently approach God or His Word, but remain bottle-fed by our pastors, are we connected to the true vine? Or is our relationship with a vicar?

the word of god ,from god ,,,,gave us pastors to watch out for our souls..\

now that doesnt mean saints are dummmies and cant read ,,as he gave us ,teachers ,evangelists also ,prophets ,,he did it for the perfecting of the saints ,,

god established this so the church could be adn go the way he prescribed...\

now there is good and bad pastors and others...saints were referred to in the bible as sheep ,,,when they loose the ability to follow ,,,the soon seperate from the others and are easy prey for the wolf..

i always had a pastor ,before i became one ,,,,did i agree with evevrthing he did ,, nope ,, but i did know he was doing what he thought best ,for our church and for me ...what more could i ask for ?

if a man is seeking god ,and following him,, if i was not pastoring myself i would follow him. it is gods way ,it is gods plan.

TheLegalist · #65 07-02-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

Not the same thing.

Obedience to the commandments of Christ is not the same as "works" that people perform to earn their salvation or "stay saved."

I'm not a Calvinist, and I don't believe the OSAS heresy. But our works need to be a result of our faith in response to grace, not contrary to it. That's was why I used the "rather make heaven by a mile than miss it by an inch" statement. It smacks of "doing so I can earn", instead of what Digging4Truth was alluding to - I do this because I love Jesus and believe it would be pleasing to him.

Yes but you obtain BECAUSE you held your end of the contract. Just as Abraham so do we. Also yes you will be successful because your obedience is based on passion for him but that does not negate the legality that we are justified IN covenant by faithfulness/obedience. It's about source and works that save are seen through God not through the fleshly attempts to be good but by being led by the Spirit and His Word.

Quote:

A true Christian will always have good works. But their good works do not earn their reward.

Again that is like saying because I am saved I will be baptized. You are confusing the different aspects of salvation and covenant experience. You cannot abide unless you follow the stipulations for abiding. You cannot be true to the call of God by negating the terms of the covenant. Salvation is purchased BY US from the one who obtained authority to GIVE IT!

Withdrawn · #66 07-02-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Salvation is purchased BY US from the one who obtained authority to GIVE IT!

Seriously?!?! Where do you get this?

Digging4Truth · #67 07-02-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

Seriously?!?! Where do you get this?

I'm looking forward to hearing this myself.

TheLegalist · #68 07-02-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

Seriously?!?! Where do you get this?

hmmm it's called the bible.... Jesus is very clear in his teachings on this. It's your theology that makes Christ words seem absurd!

Digging4Truth · #69 07-02-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

hmmm it's called the bible.... Jesus is very clear in his teachings on this. It's your theology that makes Christ words seem absurd!

Could you share the specific words of Christ that you derive this from?

Withdrawn · #70 07-02-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

hmmm it's called the bible.... Jesus is very clear in his teachings on this. It's your theology that makes Christ words seem absurd!

Great answer!

Could you be a little more specific? I'll readily admit I don't have this all figured out, but I'm growing every day and finding more joy as I study the Word of God. That seems to be a trait lacking in most legalists/judaizers I know who are certain about everything - especially the fact that anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid. So since my theology is so absurd and I'm so misguided, please provide some biblical exposition on where I might find such a doctrine of purchasing my salvation (either by works or money or whatever).

I can usually respect your posts more than some others that just drop in a scripture verse without any explanation or application. But this last one (quoted above) was just dumb and arrogant. Come on! If Jesus is so clear that we are to purchase salvation, it should be no problem for you to explain it for this dolt.

K...thanks!