Do You Believe and/or Teach that Standards are Heaven-Hell Issues?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some views of what are proper standards are just misinterpretations of the bible. The attitudes that go along with many who propose "standards standards standards " is attrocious, and shows what fruit they really are.

Brother Blume,
This is exactly what a lot of the women are telling me. The attitudes of some make you wonder. I heard Nona Freeman and Brother Barnes preach to us that if we don't come together in love we will never reach the lost.

So, where are we at in that? And with His name, blood and spirit, why are we missing it?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Brother Blume,
This is exactly what a lot of the women are telling me. The attitudes of some make you wonder. I heard Nona Freeman and Brother Barnes preach to us that if we don't come together in love we will never reach the lost.

So, where are we at in that? And with His name, blood and spirit, why are we missing it?

When we concentrate on the outward more than the inward, then you are getting quite fleshly.

Paul taught about outward concentration:

Col 2:20-3:4 KJV Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not; (22) Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? (23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (3:1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Paul said we're dead to the world with Christ. And we should not be imbalanced with over-infatuation with OUTWARD things, like the sort of preaching that always says, "Touch not; taste not; handle not." That is materialism as much as indulgence in covetousness is. Paul said that was the Old Testament infatuation. Outward Works. He was dealing with Law in this chapter.

He said in chapter 3 that saints should be more concerned and caught up with SPIRITUAL HIGHER THINGS, like this: "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth," like buttons, sleeves and threads and cloth. How in the world can Christians become so infatuated with CLOTHING???? It is weird! Some speak and are concerned more about clothing THAN ANYTHING in the bible! Look at the topics about clothing and see.

And when we list what he said we should focus upon, you read:

Col 3:12-23 KJV Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; (13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. (14) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. (15) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (16) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (17) And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. (18) Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. (19) Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. (20) Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. (21) Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged. (22) Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: (23) And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

But what gets the most bandwidth around forums? "Touch not, taste not, handle not". And when someone gets into Col. 3:12-23 material, hardly anyone wants to talk. What does that say where our hearts and priorities are? It's Flat-out materialism.

Form the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.... or the fingers type!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Standards for you. Don't you apply those standards to all men? Why not? You do it for women, don't you?

Sis, you're talking to someone who changes their beliefs on this issue and others every few weeks, but yet has all the answers during every one of those weeks. They only differ radically from one another, depending upon which week you speak to the person. Such opinionatedness is to be taken with a grain of salt.

God love the man, but it is not raising issues from the past, but rather a present problem of wavering with every wind of doctrine.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When we concentrate on the outward more than the inward, then you are getting quite fleshly.

Paul taught about outward concentrattion:



Paul said we're dead to the world with Christ. And we should not be imbalanced with over-infatuation with OUTWARD things, like the sort of preaching that always says, "Touch not; taste not; handle not." That is materialism as much as indulgence in covetousness is. Paul said that was the Old Testament infatuation. Outward Works. He was dealing with Law in this chapter.

He said in chapter 3 that saints should be more concerned and caught up with SPIRITUAL HIGHER THINGS, like this: "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

And when you list what he said we should focus upon, you read:



But what gets the most bandwidth around forums? "Touch not, taste not, handle not". And when someone gets into Col. 3:12-23 material, hardly anyone wants to talk. What does that say where our hearts and priorities are? It's Flat-out materialism.

Form the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.... or the fingers type!

Excellent post, Brother Blume! Very true.

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Very true!

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some views of what are proper standards are just misinterpretations of the bible. The attitudes that go along with many who propose "standards standards standards " is attrocious, and shows what fruit they really are. I keep everything the bible teaches about anything. Simply because I disagree with someone about a standard, does not mean I do not follow the bible completely. It's a matter of what the bible is really saying. I do not believe the bible is saying what some think it is, and therefore disregard their words if they disagree with me and say I deny part of the bible. I deny NOTHING in the bible, and keep all that the bible teaches for me to keep.

It's so sad when these sorts of threads get more involvement than anything else.

this is a great post!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Amen and amen. This verse means that infatuation with keeping standards standards standards is not going to STOP THE FLESH FROM working overtime. IN fact, it enhances fleshliness. Look at at the fighting attitudes of those who always talk standards more than anything else.

They preach on many things, but when standards are an issue, a fighting, spitting attitude rises up. Whew. That is weird, folks. They throw around the phrase, "Going to hell, going to hell, going to hell," so loosely and flippantly. I cannot stand that manner -- it is flat-out pharisaical.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen and amen. This verse means taht infatuation with keeping standards standrads standards is not going to STOP THE FLESH FROM working overtime. IN fact, it enhances fleshliness. Look at at the fighting attitudes of those who always talk standards more than anything else.

They preach on many things, but when standards are an issue, a fighting, spitting attitude rises up. Whew. That is weird, folks. They throw around the phrase, "Going to hell, going to hell, going to hell," so loosely and flippantly. I cannot stand that manner -- it is flat-out pharisaical.

Very true. I think where many are torn on the issue is that they see the beauty in it, but when the ugliness raises it's head it is hard to take. I'm sure it is a struggle for many on the inside wondering - "What could work for me?"

If you are in leadership, as we are, you have to be in unity and go with it or at least abide by it.

My only problem with the whole issue is, as I have stated, calling it "not salvational", but preaching it as though it is.

What would mean more to me is that someone would call or identify me as a "Christian" not because of how I dress, but because of the "fruit" that I bear. My countenance, my demeanor, my helpfulness, my caring...... everything that people really want in a Christian.

[rgcraig]

Sooooo.....PP wasn't so far off by stating that some have replaced Jesus with standards, huh?

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

What would mean more to me is that someone would call or identify me as a "Christian" not because of how I dress, but because of the "fruit" that I bear. My countenance, my demeanor, my helpfulness, my caring...... everything that people really want in a Christian.

I agree, PO, but there is a part of our outward appearance (esp. women) that attracts the world and let's them know "something is different about that one!"

I work in a hospital. I can spot the housekeepers from the nurses and them from the doctors.....WHEN they are dressed according to our system's standards. If I were to need a doctor, I'd KNOW (if they are dressed per "standards") who to run to. When they are walking around dressed any ol' way they chose, you can't tell one from the other (some- or most times).

Along those lines, I've always used this example (and pardon me that it works best with, but not exclusively with, women): if you desperately needed prayer at a car accident and two women were walking your way and one was dressed "worldly" and the other like an Apostolic who holds to the stricter standards of dress, who would you run to first?

Please don't assume I think outward dress saves anyone, but there is a place for it in the world. (I'm not even saying the more strict dresser is the best one to have pray for your need!) There may not be time for someone to see your fruit, even though I think that is the best indicator to the world of who is a Christian.

Just a thought.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I agree, PO, but there is a part of our outward appearance (esp. women) that attracts the world and let's them know "something is different about that one!"

I work in a hospital. I can spot the housekeepers from the nurses and them from the doctors.....WHEN they are dressed according to our system's standards. If I were to need a doctor, I'd KNOW (if they are dressed per "standards") who to run to. When they are walking around dressed any ol' way they chose, you can't tell one from the other (some- or most times).

Along those lines, I've always used this example (and pardon me that it works best with, but not exclusively with, women): if you desperately needed prayer at a car accident and two women were walking your way and one was dressed "worldly" and the other like an Apostolic who holds to the stricter standards of dress, who would you run to first?

Please don't assume I think outward dress saves anyone, but there is a place for it in the world. There may not be time for someone to see your fruit, even though I think that is the best indicator to the world of who is a Christian.

Just a thought.

That's just nuts~!