Non-salvational Issues?

[mfblume]

Not what you think...



Many wonder why some issues are important if they are non-salvational issues. Once, when teaching about righteousness and identity in Christ, someone later asked me why do we teach these things. Aside from the fact that they're in the bible, meaning God wants us to know them, this person could see no relevance in learning such things since they do not regard how to get saved, and this person was saved.

Through the years I thought about such an erring concept, and think I can finally put the answer into some words to an extent, having known all along such a concept is actually quite ridiculous.

Consider the oft repeated term "In Christ" throughout the epistles. Paul wrote to the Colossians and indicated how they were saved and set free from satan's kingdom, and reconciled to God. But he said he had great struggles for the Colossians and those at Laodicaea. He also stated he laboured in order to be able to present every man "perfect" in Christ at the end.

Paul's struggle was in seeing many believers pulled away from their position in Christ. Deceivers would succeed in "spoiling" them from, or stealing them out of, this position. And his purpose was to settle and ground and build up saints in this position of "in Christ".

We can think of the GARDEN OF EDEN as a position similar to being "in Christ". Adam and Eve were removed from this position and lost the Garden. They were in full standing with God and nothing was amiss in their situation. This is similar to someone who is saved. They are in Christ and totally freed from sin and satan's power. But Adam and Eve came under the power of the devil just as Paul saw many believers losing their position "in Christ".

Paul's remedy dealt with the the same problem we can see in Eve's experience. Satan implied that Eve LACKED something she did not actually lack at all. He implied she was NOT LIKE GOD.

Gen 1:27 KJV So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:1 KJV This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Gen 3:5 KJV For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, ["ye shall be as God" - ASV] knowing good and evil.

God already made her in his likeness and image, and the devil seduced her to believe she had YET TO BECOME like God.

Paul told the Colossians to not let anyone remove them from their position in Christ because THEY WERE COMPLETE IN CHRIST. Since the fullness of the Godhead was in Christ, they were complete in that position. (By the way, this is not a oneness issue, really, but rather an issue of having everything God could ever supply to us by being in Christ where His fullness dwells).

Col 2:8-10 KJV Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

If Paul told them to not let anyone remove them from being in Christ because they were already complete in Christ, then that tells us HOW people would try to remove them. They would try to make the believer think THEY LACK SOMETHING. But Paul noted they HAD IT ALL already!

Now, the problem is that many in Christ DO NOT SEE ALL THEY HAVE IN CHRIST. Why? It is hidden.

Col 2:1-3 KJV For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; (2) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; (3) In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Eve DID NOT KNOW she was already in God's image. But she was, nevertheless. So, today, many believers do not KNOW they have everything the devil could ever try to deceive them into thinking THEY DO NOT HAVE.


This is why it is so important to teach things that do not save us, but explain what we have because we ARE saved. The devil will try to deceive us into thinking we LACK.

There are actually TWO THINGS the devil does in every battle against a believer:

1) Try to deceive them into thinking they lack what they already have.

2) Or, try to face them with a situation they think THEY CANNOT HANDLE, WHEN THEY CAN!


Paul's teachings about this issue is the GROUNDING and SETTLING and BUILDING UP of people who are already in Christ.

Adam and Eve were in the Garden, but not grounded and settled there to stay. So it is with people in Christ. 90% of biblical Teachings may not regard how to get saved, but they regard GROUNDING US in Christ so that WE STAY SAVED.

Col 1:28-29 KJV Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Being PERFECT in Christ is being GROUNDED and Settled there, not to be moved away.

[Felicity]

Wonderful teaching Bro. Blume!

Being PERFECT in Christ is being GROUNDED and Settled there, not to be moved away.

Love this! Perfection certainly can't depend on our actions or behavior because it's imperfect much of the time.

[mfblume]

When considering this issue, the picture of the Garden with the Tree of Life came into mind as well as the New Jerusalem with the Tree of Life. Adam should have brought the Garden to the sort of City we read of in Revelation. But he failed, so Christ became the LAST ADAM.

In that Garden flowed a river that held gold and precious stones and pearl (bdellium). It was IN THERE, but HIDDEN, just as the treasures of wisdom and understanding are hidden IN CHRIST. They had to be EXCAVATED. And once excavated, they were to be used to BUILD UP a city as in Revelation!

This speaks of the truths that saints do not see about themselves in Christ. All these things are already true about them, but unless we EXCAVATE these hidden truths in Christ, we will not be built up in Him to remain!

Once we learn of these truths regarding those who are in Christ, WE WILL BE SETTLED AND GROUNDED and BUILT UP without fear of being removed, FOR WE KNOW WHO WE ARE, AND WHO GOD IS, and thereby will not fall for the devil's lies.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Wonderful teaching Bro. Blume!

Love this! Perfection certainly can't depend on our actions or behavior because it's imperfect much of the time.

Right on! And I think that is what scares people away from the concept, because they look at THEIR abilities and know they cannot cut it. But it never was our abilities! That was the same mistake Israel made when they doubted entrance into Canaan. They saw how they were grasshoppers. But GOD'S POWER was their key, not their own.

It's not by might, nor by power, but by God's Spirit!

[originalsecretplace]

For some reason I can't fathom, Eve wanted to know good and evil. She chose the knowledge of good and evil over the knowlegde of life.

Weren't the Galations and the Colossians being drawn back under the law by some? You can't be perfected (matured) or given life by the law, it kills. You've fallen from grace if you live by the law?

Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

For some reason I can't fathom, Eve wanted to know good and evil. She chose the knowledge of good and evil over the knowlegde of life.

I think it is because she wanted to be like God although she already was. The devil appealed to her desire and love for God. What a wicked manner!

Weren't the Galations and the Colossians being drawn back under the law by some? You can't be perfected (matured) or given life by the law, it kills. You've fallen from grace if you live by the law?

Exactly. LAW was the issue in Paul's day. And I think it is STILL the issue with legalism. People trade what they already have in attempts to perfect themselves through clothing or other activities. It's crazy when you think of it!

Legalists do love God, but are deceived into thinking their actions merit them heaven.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I think it is because she wanted to be like God although she already was. The devil appealed to her desire and love for God. What a wicked manner!

But neither Adam nor Eve had eaten of the tree of life. So they were lacking in some respects? They were told to eat from any tree BUT the tree of TNG&E. For the day they eat of it they would die.

But is being like God knowing good and evil (death) or is being like God - image of Christ - (life)? So the devil lied to her more about the nature of being like God?

The devil said:
Gen 3:5 KJV For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, ["ye shall be as God" - ASV] knowing good and evil.

Is this the same?

Col 2:8-10 KJV Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, (TNOG&E)and not after Christ(LIFE). (9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

But neither Adam nor Eve had eaten of the tree of life. So they were lacking in some respects? They were told to eat from any tree BUT the tree of TNG&E. For the day they eat of it they would die.

True, they lacked eternal life. But the fact remains they had it in their grasp, and did not lack it in the sense that it was right there for them. We can have something in our grasp and think we do not, and be deceived.

But is being like God knowing good and evil (death) or is being like God - image of Christ - (life)? So the devil lied to her more about the nature of being like God?

I believe they would have knowledge of good and evil in eating the fruit of Life anyway!

Scholars note that the words of God in saying, "Gen 3:22 KJV And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..." was said in mockery by God. In other words, 'Well, they really have the knowledge of good and evil now! They now KNOW what evil means after they committed it, learning it the hard way."

But upon eating fruit of life, they would come to know all things as I believe the word tells us in 1 Cor 13 where we see presently through a glass darkly but then face to face.

The devil said:
Gen 3:5 KJV For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, ["ye shall be as God" - ASV] knowing good and evil.

Is this the same?

Col 2:8-10 KJV Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, (TNOG&E)and not after Christ(LIFE). (9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I think so! Great point.

[Amanah]

there are things that are important, even if not salvational issues, because you are going to sow what you reap in this life, unless you are spared by the mercy and grace of God.

there are some things that might not keep you out of heaven, but the consequences of those actions may make your life hell on earth.

[Aquila]

I'd like to add that we often don't realize that the forbidden tree was called the Tree of the Knowledge of BOTH Good and Evil. Notice how knowledge of what is "good" is even found apart from the Tree of Life. Eve wanted to know right and wrong, thinking she'd be able to do the right. This is much like a believer who thinks if they just have a list of what God requires they can live up to that list and be righteous in God's sight.

I see it like this, we have an option. We have two fruit to partake in.. we have the fruit from the Tree of Life (Jesus Christ and being identified with Him alone in a state of grace)... or we have the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good (the Law) and Evil (Sin).

Even when we strive to live by "Law" (the knowledge of "good vs. evil") we're partaking of that which cannot save and is actually called "the ministry of death".

We can only be saved through our identification with Jesus Christ and our abiding in Him by faith.