Is it really revival?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Acts 2:38 is not what saves anyone! It is faith in Jesus Christ that saves us. Anything we do as a result of being saved by grace through faith is the fruit of regeneration. Faith in Acts 2:38 has replaced faith in Jesus Christ in many apostolic circles. Starting with Peter on the Day of Pentecost, it was the preaching of Christ (death, burial, resurrection) that brought about conversion. Baptism in water and receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost happened subsequent to their conversion as they walked with God by faith.

Faith in God's grace caused Noah to build an ark which saved him NOT faith alone. By faith Noah builded.
According to your theology it would read by faith Noah did NOTHING his faith alone kept him from drowning. But BIBLE faith always requries something of man. And in this dispensation it is obedience to Acts 2:38. True Jesus saves through faith in his blood in obeying the gospel.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Faith in God's grace caused Noah to build an ark which saved him NOT faith alone. By faith Noah builded.
According to your theology it would read by faith Noah did NOTHING his faith alone kept him from drowning. But BIBLE faith always requries something of man. And in this dispensation it is obedience to Acts 2:38. True Jesus saves through faith in his blood in obeying the gospel.

In your last sentence it state "in obeying the gospel." Are you forgetting the Gospel is the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus, not Acts 2:38? Or am I mis reading?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

In your last sentence it state "in obeying the gospel." Are you forgetting the Gospel is the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus, not Acts 2:38? Or am I mis reading?

The gospel is when I experience His death burial and resurrection for myself NOT just mental assent to an historical event. Obeying Acts 2:38 is the death-burial-resurrection of my old life and new creation.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Faith in God's grace caused Noah to build an ark which saved him NOT faith alone. By faith Noah builded.
According to your theology it would read by faith Noah did NOTHING his faith alone kept him from drowning. But BIBLE faith always requries something of man. And in this dispensation it is obedience to Acts 2:38. True Jesus saves through faith in his blood in obeying the gospel.

You just confirmed what I said SE! You're the one that loves to throw around the "faith alone" phrase. It's not what I said. Would Noah have built an ark had he not had faith in God? His building an ark was rooted in his relationship of faith in God. Would he have been building an ark had he not found favor with God based upon his faith? The ark wasn't his salvation, it was his faith that saved him. The ark was the result of his faith.

Because of his faith, Noah was a man who had a good conscience toward God, which is why he is a type of the one being saved when they in faith do what God is requiring of them.

I will say that faith alone will lead a believer to heaven. If what we do is not of faith it is sin. (Romans 14:23) If more preachers would give proper emphasis to the vital role of faith in a person's life, instead of giving more emphasis to ACts 2:38 than even the Apotles did, we might not have so many backsliders in Pentecost.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

You just confirmed what I said SE! You're the one that loves to throw around the "faith alone" phrase. It's not what I said. Would Noah have built an ark had he not had faith in God? His building an ark was rooted in his relationship of faith in God. Would he have been building an ark had he not found favor with God based upon his faith? The ark wasn't his salvation, it was his faith that saved him. The ark was the result of his faith.

Because of his faith, Noah was a man who had a good conscience toward God, which is why he is a type of the one being saved when they in faith do what God is requiring of them.

I will say that faith alone will lead a believer to heaven. If what we do is not of faith it is sin. (Romans 14:23) If more preachers would give proper emphasis to the vital role of faith in a person's life, instead of giving more emphasis to ACts 2:38 than even the Apotles did, we might not have so many backsliders in Pentecost.

Are you saying we are saying the SAME thing??????????????????? How can you separate faith and the action faith requires one without the other is incomplete. To simply go through the motions of obeying Acts 2:38 without faith would never save anyone just as faith apart from obedience to the gospel will not save. Man's cooperation was proof of his faith.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The gospel is when I experience His death burial and resurrection for myself NOT just mental assent to an historical event. Obeying Acts 2:38 is the death-burial-resurrection of my old life and new creation.

WRONG!!!!

When does a person pass from death unto life according to Scripture?

How do you get death out of "a change of mind and heart", which is what repentance is? What caused this sudden transformation of mind and heart? Dead folks are just that, they are dead! Doesn't line up with what the Scriptures teach!

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Are you saying we are saying the SAME thing??????????????????? How can you separate faith and the action faith requires one without the other is incomplete. To simply go through the motions of obeying Acts 2:38 without faith would never save anyone just as faith apart from obedience to the gospel will not save. Man's cooperation was proof of his faith.

I am not going to debate this whole issue with you all over again. You believe one is not saved until they talk in tongues. I believe they get to talk in tongues because they are saved. You will not change my view on this and I will not change yours. You have a right to be wrong!

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Would Noah have built an ark had he not had faith in God? Would he have been building an ark had he not found favor with God based upon his faith?

The first thing I find about Noah in scripture says nothing about his faith granting him favor with God. Genesis 6:8 states that Noah "found grace in the eyes of the Lord".

The ark wasn't his salvation, it was his faith that saved him. The ark was the result of his faith.

How can you separate the two?

His faith is what led him to build an ark which saved him from the flood. Sure, you could extrapolate that to say that faith saved him, but we must go further back than that and say God saved him. So, his faith didn't save him, either, in that regard.

Noah's faith and what he did cannot be separated. One does not exist without the other.

when they in faith do what God is requiring of them.

Exactly! Faith will make us DO something. If it doesn't, it's not faith. The body cannot be alive with a spirit, and faith cannot be alive without works. They just cannot be separated.

I will say that faith alone will lead a believer to heaven.

Did you mean to say that faith alone will not lead a believer to heaven? If not, how does one know he/she has faith? Because it manifests itself in a response. Faith cannot exist alone. It is dead without works (response, obedience). Abraham was not counted as righteous, according to James, until he DID something (James 2:23). Personally, I don't even think it's counted as faith without works. It's just........well, I don't really know. It's just a belief, I guess.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by OGIA

The first thing I find about Noah in scripture says nothing about his faith granting him favor with God. Genesis 6:8 states that Noah "found grace in the eyes of the Lord".


How can you separate the two?

His faith is what led him to build an ark which saved him from the flood. Sure, you could extrapolate that to say that faith saved him, but we must go further back than that and say God saved him. So, his faith didn't save him, either, in that regard.

Noah's faith and what he did cannot be separated. One does not exist without the other.


Exactly! Faith will make us DO something. If it doesn't, it's not faith. The body cannot be alive with a spirit, and faith cannot be alive without works. They just cannot be separated.


Did you mean to say that faith alone will not lead a believer to heaven? If not, how does one know he/she has faith? Because it manifests itself in a response. Faith cannot exist alone. It is dead without works (response, obedience). Abraham was not counted as righteous, according to James, until he DID something (James 2:23). Personally, I don't even think it's counted as faith without works. It's just........well, I don't really know. It's just a belief, I guess.

You will not hear me disagree with the statement that faith leads to obedience. It is not whether one needs to obey that is in question when we have these discussions, it is why one obeys.

Some preach and teach the Holy Ghost as if one must GET the Holy Ghost to be saved. Others like myself preach that one GETS to GET the Holy Ghost because one has been saved.

Acts 2:38 doesn't command us to get the Holy Ghost, it tells us we get to receive the Holy Ghost as a gift. This gift is not to make us a child of God, but because we are the child of God.

4But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to [the regulations of] the Law,

5To purchase the freedom of (to ransom, to redeem, to atone for) those who were subject to the Law, that we might be adopted and have sonship conferred upon us [and be recognized as God's sons].

6And because you [really] are [His] sons, God has sent the [Holy] Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, Abba (Father)! Father! (Gal.4:4-6 AMP)

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

You will not hear me disagree with the statement that faith leads to obedience. It is not whether one needs to obey that is in question when we have these discussions, it is why one obeys.

Some preach and teach the Holy Ghost as if one must GET the Holy Ghost to be saved. Others like myself preach that one GETS to GET the Holy Ghost because one has been saved.

Acts 2:38 doesn't command us to get the Holy Ghost, it tells us we get to receive the Holy Ghost as a gift. This gift is not to make us a child of God, but because we are the child of God.

4But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to [the regulations of] the Law,

5To purchase the freedom of (to ransom, to redeem, to atone for) those who were subject to the Law, that we might be adopted and have sonship conferred upon us [and be recognized as God's sons].

6And because you [really] are [His] sons, God has sent the [Holy] Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, Abba (Father)! Father! (Gal.4:4-6 AMP)

As you told someone else, I'm sure you've gone round and round about this. I totally disagree with this belief, but if the elder hasn't convinced you, I'm certainly not gonna change you.