Are the Godairs leaving?

[TRIPLE E]

I say if they are going to leave they should leave walking a STRAIGHTLINE!

[TRIPLE E]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

Hmmmmmm...... Seems I recall hearing a tape of the sponsor of BOTT contending that the UPCI should go on Television during the last meeting. Which at the time was against the Manual and is certainly the most divisive issue of our time for the UPCI.

So I guess now we should all live by the OT rule "An eye for an eye".

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor G

I think Dan wants in the UPC...

Dan was in ... and chose to withdraw honorably ...because I could not agree w/ various positions ...

Dan would like to see the fellowship of his father and upbringing make progress ...

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

They paid their dues to have the manual thus the names there belong to them. I wonder if any UPC has ever used it for a mailer to any event that was not actually a UPC event like BOTT?

Surely you do not think the two are equal? One is to disrupt the organization and the other is to strengthen.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

AM was stating a position he held on a forthcominglegal resolution ... everyone had the opportunity and right to state their view on their own platforms...

Seems the UC's even wrote a book prior to GC expressing their views ... mailed it out the the entire fellowship as was their right....

It's amazing that the rule of law crowd has such bitterness and disdain for the legality of the resolution process and the freedoms to express divergent views.

Sorry I am not as quick as some here but I have to resolve one issue at a time.

The issue being discussed was not what views can be expressed from ones own platform, but the views that can be expressed when one uses the UPCI directory for a mailing list to adverise a meeting.

Of course I am sure you would agree that those paying the rent in Tulsa have a right to express their views also since it will be their platform. Just trying to establish some consistency.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sorry Elder .... the commitments made by UPCI ministers are to abide by the affirmation statement which calls for keeping UNITY while not seeking to contend for the "DISUNITY" of the Body. Folks are going to have differing views ... don't confuse UNIFORMITY w/ UNITY.

Second, they commit to the teachings and positions of the fellowship as expressed by the manual's position papers ...this includes withdrawing honorably when your personal convictions cause you to want no longer desire fellowship .... and not seek to influence others to leave or stop supporting the UPCI

and thirdly they commit at the time of application to not cause strife ...

2007 Manual Page 159

Position Papers/Ministerial Code of Ethics

ends with...

"Having accepted a pastorate, I will not use my influence to alienate the church or any portion thereof from the fellowship or support of the United Pentecostal Church International. If my convictions change, I will be honorable enough to withdraw."




Each UPCI minister affirms in the AS:

“We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.”

This was changed by the Res. 4 vote. They changed their position the organization. Thus men are following their conscience just like men followed their conscience in 92. Same principle just from the other spectrum. Those men withdrew their churches in 92 their problem was they were not organizee which I think they see the error of that now. I admire those guys though I fervently disagree with them by not violating their conscience by signing something they did not believe. So why the outrage over the other end of the spectrum? Good for the goose good for the gander.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

Hmmmmmm...... Seems I recall hearing a tape of the sponsor of BOTT contending that the UPCI should go on Television during the last meeting. Which at the time was against the Manual and is certainly the most divisive issue of our time for the UPCI.

Then there is that.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

This was changed by the Res. 4 vote. They changed their position the organization. Thus men are following their conscience just like men followed their conscience in 92. Same principle just from the other spectrum. Those men withdrew their churches in 92 their problem was they were not organizee which I think they see the error of that now. I admire those guys though I fervently disagree with them by not violating their conscience by signing something they did not believe. So why the outrage over the other end of the spectrum? Good for the goose good for the gander.

So then when faced w/ a dilemma you can still act honorably when leaving or in disagreement

... the org changed but their commitments to act civilly and ethically when leaving or disagreeing should not.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Esther

Surely you do not think the two are equal? One is to disrupt the organization and the other is to strengthen.

Strengthen is NOT what some percieve at BOTT. Leading in another direction is what some see.

[Kutless]

its total mayhem......anarchy....its a free-for-all!!!!

Run for your lives.