Senator Opposes Medicaid Expansion To Save Souls

[Aquila]

Of course, there are other systems that are not "single payer". Switzerland has a system that is both private and public, but it is a bit more expensive than single payer projections.

I just can't believe that we are the only Western nation with tens of thousands dying every year from treatable conditions because they don't have insurance. I can't believe that we can put a man on the moon and yet we're unable to produce a universal health insurance program. I can't believe that we're the only Western nation with so many per capita declaring bankruptcy due to medical bills. We're the most wealthy and most powerful nation on earth right now... I just don't buy it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Your math is way off. Even your idol Bernie and his bff, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, have higher figures than you.

NDavid, the political rancor among Christians has become so elevated by partisanship. Bernie Sanders is not my "idol" any more than Trump is your "idol". Why even say something in that manner? We need to elevate the dialogue in our nation to a place of civility and respect, not drop to the gutter, and talk to one another with such sharpness, as though we're radio talk show hosts trying to stir up listeners for our sponsors.

If Christians can't elevate the conversation, bring in civility and respect, then our faith is clearly in vain.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

NDavid, the political rancor among Christians has become so elevated by partisanship. Bernie Sanders is not my "idol" any more than Trump is your "idol". Why even say something in that manner? We need to elevate the dialogue in our nation to a place of civility and respect, not drop to the gutter, and talk to one another with such sharpness, as though we're radio talk show hosts trying to stir up listeners for our sponsors.

If Christians can't elevate the conversation, bring in civility and respect, then our faith is clearly in vain.

Oh that's rich, coming from you. Don't lecture me about civility and respect or how "faith is clearly in vain," over how I posted. Not until you clean up your own house should you lecture anybody about Christians being civil and respectful.

"Gutter?" What is gutter about calling Bernie Sanders your idol? You should look up the definition before making such a claim.

Seriously, kick rocks man. Don't come at me yapping about "gutter" "respect" "civility" and being a Christian when you post as you do about Trump and other GOP/conservatives.

You're a hypocrite dude. #StopIt

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I suggest looking into this FAQ on H.R. 676.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq#002

If other nations can do it, we can too. And... we can do it better than they can.

Other nations tax their citizens at an obscene rate and leave their military depleted and borders unguarded. Other nations are much smaller than the US.

Your website does nothing to dispute the Urban Institutes figures -- a left leaning, single payer supporting organization, btw.

Wow, it says that it could save $500 billion a year by putting private insurance companies (who employ tens of thousands of people) out of business.

Again:
US revenue = 3.3 Trillion
Single Payer cost = 3.2 Trillion

Your $500 billion is chump change to what's needed for any single payer, "medicare for all" plan.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Oh that's rich, coming from you. Don't lecture me about civility and respect or how "faith is clearly in vain," over how I posted. Not until you clean up your own house should you lecture anybody about Christians being civil and respectful.

Ummm… I thought you'd be in agreement that the tone between Christians has become to disrespectful.

"Gutter?" What is gutter about calling Bernie Sanders your idol? You should look up the definition before making such a claim.

Sander's isn't my idol any more than Trump is your idol.

Seriously, kick rocks man. Don't come at me yapping about "gutter" "respect" "civility" and being a Christian when you post as you do about Trump and other GOP/conservatives.

I think it's time that all Christians try to be more civil. You're not for it?

You're a hypocrite dude. #StopIt

Yes, I've done the same. But I'm admitting it, not proud of it, and asking for a bit of civility among us Christians. There's nothing wrong about that. In fact, I'm amazed that as Christian, you're not in agreement.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Other nations tax their citizens at an obscene rate and leave their military depleted and borders unguarded. Other nations are much smaller than the US.

Your website does nothing to dispute the Urban Institutes figures -- a left leaning, single payer supporting organization, btw.

Wow, it says that it could save $500 billion a year by putting private insurance companies (who employ tens of thousands of people) out of business.

Again:
US revenue = 3.3 Trillion
Single Payer cost = 3.2 Trillion

Your $500 billion is chump change to what's needed for any single payer, "medicare for all" plan.

Again 1.4 trillion can already be used for the program. Then you have the $500 billion (half a trillion) can be saved only by eliminating the administrative costs. That's just administrative costs.

All figures given by single payer opponents are based on current costs. Given that single payer not only eliminates $500 billion in administrative costs, it also empowers the government to negotiate prices. And once bills are actually paid by the single payer, losses generated by the uninsured will cease to be passed to the consumer. The cost estimates given by opponents are based on current costs, and are therefore, inflated.

And we haven't even gotten into cutting the budget of anything else to help pay for it. There are so many other stupid subsidies (corporate welfare), tax loopholes that are exploited that can be closed, and other silly programs that can be cut to pay for it.

As I've said, it could greatly reduce all the excessive silly programs. To pay for something that actually benefits everyone. Not just the poor and not just the wealthy.

And with businesses unshackled from providing insurance, wages and jobs might very well increase as businesses use that revenue competitively in the market place.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ummm… I thought you'd be in agreement that the tone between Christians has become to disrespectful.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it's time that all Christians try to be more civil. You're not for it?

Originally Posted by n david

Your math is way off. Even your idol Bernie and his bff, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, have higher figures than you.

CBO reported the government took in 3.3 trillion in taxes. Of that amount, 1.38 trillion was spent on all the gov't healthcare combined. Medicare, Medicaid, Chip, Vet healthcare, etc.

The Urban Institute, a left-leaning organization, says the cost of Bernie's single payer healthcare would be 3.2 trillion a year.

US revenue = 3.3 trillion
Single Payer cost = 3.2 trillion

It would bankrupt the US.

Please point out the "gutter" part of my post. You accused me of "dropping to the gutter" so please show me where I did so.

"""of, relating to, or characteristic of the gutter especially : marked by extreme vulgarity, cheapness, or indecency gutter politics."""

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, I've done the same. But I'm admitting it, not proud of it, and asking for a bit of civility among us Christians. There's nothing wrong about that. In fact, I'm amazed that as Christian, you're not in agreement.

What I'm not in agreement with is your hypocrisy and self righteous junk. I'm going to save your post here, because I guarantee you in a week or month or two you'll be right back to your usual disrespectful and uncivil posts towards Trump and anyone who is conservative/GOP.

Don't lecture me about "I'm amazed that as a Christian, you...." You fix you before you lecture me about anything.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Please point out the "gutter" part of my post. You accused me of "dropping to the gutter" so please show me where I did so.

Where did I accuse you specifically of dropping to the gutter. I was speaking about all of us in general. Here's my statement:

We need to elevate the dialogue in our nation to a place of civility and respect, not drop to the gutter, and talk to one another with such sharpness, as though we're radio talk show hosts trying to stir up listeners for our sponsors.

That includes me.

What I'm not in agreement with is your hypocrisy and self righteous junk. I'm going to save your post here, because I guarantee you in a week or month or two you'll be right back to your usual disrespectful and uncivil posts towards Trump and anyone who is conservative/GOP.

Ah, but even if and when I choose to be disrespectful, it doesn't make it right. And, I don't think it is spiritually mature to say that if I do it, it makes it right for you to do it. I mean, you are spiritually superior to me, being a "commie" and all, right? lol

Don't lecture me about "I'm amazed that as a Christian, you...." You fix you before you lecture me about anything.

Hey, you chose to disagree and justify the vitriolic manner in which so many of us are accustomed to talking to each other.

I'm saying that we can try to be more civil.

You're implying that we can't, or even worse, shouldn't.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again 1.4 trillion can already be used for the program. Then you have the $500 billion (half a trillion) can be saved only by eliminating the administrative costs. That's just administrative costs.

"""The system would be funded in part by the savings obtained from replacing today’s welter of inefficient, profit-oriented, private insurance companies – and the system-wide administrative waste they generate."""

"Vote for Democrats, they want to put private insurance companies out of business!"

Do you know how many people would lose their jobs over that $500 billion? I looked up the estimated number of employees in the health insurance industry -- over 463,000 employees.

I'd like you to tell them that they're going to lose their job and income because you want to save $500 billion for your single payer socialist dream.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And we haven't even gotten into cutting the budget of anything else to help pay for it. There are so many other stupid subsidies (corporate welfare), tax loopholes that are exploited that can be closed, and other silly programs that can be cut to pay for it.

IE corporate tax hikes. Good luck keeping companies in the US when you hike their taxes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

As I've said, it could greatly reduce all the excessive silly programs. To pay for something that actually benefits everyone. Not just the poor and not just the wealthy.

The 1.38 trillion eliminates the "excessive silly programs." There's no more savings or cutting to be made.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And with businesses unshackled from providing insurance, wages and jobs might very well increase as businesses use that revenue competitively in the market place.

Well, you just put 463,000 out of work and hiked the corporate taxes for businesses -- so your claim that businesses would be unshackled and jobs would increase is moot.

This would not unshackle them. What you're calling for would actually shackle them with higher taxes and other regulatory issues.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Where did I accuse you specifically of dropping to the gutter. I was speaking about all of us in general.

Then don't quote my post and don't directly address your comment to me if you're "speaking about all of us in general."

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're implying that we can't, or even worse, shouldn't.

I'm doing no such thing. All I have done is point out your blatant hypocrisy and the false accusation that my post "dropped to the gutter."

I do believe people can and should be civil. Don't put words in my post. Don't twist and try to claim I'm "implying" anything when I'm not. And if you do that junk, don't whine when I punch back.