One Sacrifice Vs. 4,000 years of sacrifices

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

You believe that what is required of us NOW was not known of God? Personally, I
believe God is omniscient.

I never said anything about God not foreknowing what is required of us now. Where is that coming from? Obviously you misread my points.

We are clearly not speaking the same language because of certain words. But please tell me:
what does "Holiness" mean to you? And do you believe iniquity and sin could exist in eternity
(outside of the natural realm in which we live)?

I am just saying we don't know these details of angels before the fall like some folks claim was reality. And I don't care, if the word doesn't speak of it.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I never said anything about God not foreknowing what is required of us now. Where is that coming from? Obviously you misread my points.
I am just saying we don't know these details of angels before the fall like some folks claim was reality. And I don't care, if the word doesn't speak of it.

You didn't answer my question: what is "Holiness" to you?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

You didn't answer my question: what is "Holiness" to you?

It's being in ownership and possession of God. But that is not the key issue at hand. It's this idea of what happened with angels and why.

[mfblume]

This is getting off course. Let's go back to the original issue.

Now, because there were no laws in eternity (save for the Law of Holiness), Lucifer could not be punished but only cast out from the presence of Holiness!

How do you know there were no laws in eternity? How do you know there was just a law of holiness? The word does not say what laws existed and what laws did not exist in eternity. So, I am simply referring to these claims you made. We cannot say there were no laws in existence in eternity except la w of holiness. The bible does not say anything about what you just claimed on those two counts.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's being in ownership and possession of God. But that is not the key issue at hand. It's this idea of what happened with angels and why.

"Being in ownership and possession of God"?

Maybe I missed it somewhere. I believe that I received "...the earnest of the Spirit..."
because I belonged to Him, as a SON. And then...I thought the Holy Spirit was "...the WORD;
and the WORD was with God; and the WORD was God." But are you saying that Holiness
is God?

Did you ever "see" a person, in your spirit, so far from God, suddenly turn and walk
towards Him? Not many can see that far.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

This is getting off course. Let's go back to the original issue.
How do you know there were no laws in eternity? How do you know there was just a law of holiness? The word does not say what laws existed and what laws did not exist in eternity. So, I am simply referring to these claims you made. We cannot say there were no laws in existence in eternity except la w of holiness. The bible does not say anything about what you just claimed on those two counts.

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line
upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little...".

We're definitely not "off course": it is all interwoven. Who is the one created "...perfect in
all your ways..."? There were no laws needed for that one, because he was perfect: he was
"...a cherub that covers..."! He was an angel that KNEW eternity: that was his estate.
Man was also created perfect, "...in our image and likeness...". But man would have a higher
calling: that of a son. Man would have to reach that calling through faith and obedience, so...
"...the Lord God COMMANDED man...". God KNEW man would be tempted and eat of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil; and He allowed it. For God had already decreed eternal
life for man by speaking: "Let there be light; and there WAS light."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

"Being in ownership and possession of God"?

Maybe I missed it somewhere. I believe that I received "...the earnest of the Spirit..."
because I belonged to Him, as a SON. And then...I thought the Holy Spirit was "...the WORD;
and the WORD was with God; and the WORD was God." But are you saying that Holiness
is God?

Did you ever "see" a person, in your spirit, so far from God, suddenly turn and walk
towards Him? Not many can see that far.

Hahaha.... Totally misunderstood me.

Let me rephrase it.


God owns us. Holiness means belonging to. We are to be holy to God... We belong to him.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hahaha.... Totally misunderstood me.
Let me rephrase it.
God owns us. Holiness means belonging to. We are to be holy to God... We belong to him.

Misspeaking always leads to misunderstanding.

God owns everyone and everything: is everyone/everything therefore holy? Are we (referring
to man) all saved? I believe the Church is holy, perfect, and pure: because the Lord knows
the end of the matter. Now this.

Did "...the cherub that covers..." and all the angels that followed him not belong to God?
Were they not holy "...until iniquity was found in you..."? Could they remain in God's presence
without Holiness? They rejected Truth, and Holiness rejected them! It's as simple as that.
But where were they cast? To a place God, in His foreknowledge, had prepared: where it
was all emptiness and darkness, and where there was no form. To a place where God
created a beginning and an end: and a place where He would eventually deal with all of
iniquity and sin.

"And God said, 'Let there be light.' And there was light."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Misspeaking always leads to misunderstanding.

God owns everyone and everything: is everyone/everything therefore holy? Are we (referring
to man) all saved? I believe the Church is holy, perfect, and pure: because the Lord knows
the end of the matter. Now this.

Did "...the cherub that covers..." and all the angels that followed him not belong to God?
Were they not holy "...until iniquity was found in you..."? Could they remain in God's presence
without Holiness? They rejected Truth, and Holiness rejected them! It's as simple as that.
But where were they cast? To a place God, in His foreknowledge, had prepared: where it
was all emptiness and darkness, and where there was no form. To a place where God
created a beginning and an end: and a place where He would eventually deal with all of
iniquity and sin.

"And God said, 'Let there be light.' And there was light."

When I say we belong to God and are owned by him I refer to the same point Paul made in saying we're bought with a price and are not our own.

Again, all you say about a law of holiness and no other law is pure speculation and derived conclusions that are not concluded for us in scripture. That's all I am trying to say. So we cannot make such statements and think them to be purely true.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When I say we belong to God and are owned by him I refer to the same point Paul made in saying we're bought with a price and are not our own.

Again, all you say about a law of holiness and no other law is pure speculation and derived conclusions that are not concluded for us in scripture. That's all I am trying to say. So we cannot make such statements and think them to be purely true.

The whole world belongs to God, and all of mankind was redeemed:
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins
of the whole world."

Now, was "...the cherub that covers..." holy? And the angels that followed after the
cherub, were they not also holy before "...iniquity was found in you..."? Do you believe
that God would allow iniquity and sin in His eternal presence?

In this realm, God has ALLOWED sin and iniquity and certainly has had to turn His face
from sin and iniquity through the sacrifices in the OT, and genuine repentance, today.

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men
every where to repent...".