One Sacrifice Vs. 4,000 years of sacrifices

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Websters Dictionary, or the like, is not a good place to start defining God's will.

Right. We have to go the Greek.

FIRST ESTATE in Greek is ONE WORD:

G746
ἀρχή
archē
ar-khay'
From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

The Law of Holiness is simply: nothing contrary to Holiness can remain in its presence.

The angels were judged because they "...kept not their first estate..."; that estate was being
created perfect and in Holiness. They abandoned that estate when iniquity was found in Lucifer,
and they followed after him.

Those angels can expect a worse punishment than being cast out of God's presence: it is
the lake of fire BECAUSE they tempted and taught the chosen ones (man) to sin.

But what about the statement no law was in existence when they fell? Where is the grounds for that?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But what about the statement no law was in existence when they fell? Where is the grounds for that?

Same argument: where is there reference to "laws" against iniquity or sin aside, from Holiness,
when the angels were cast out of eternity?

We must look at the record, and we find none. The only record we really have is that God is just
and righteous. Being that God is righteous, we know HE would never punish anyone for a lack of
law(s): nor would God exceed his punishment.

Then we must look at the record with God's dealings with man, and we find ample evidence
of laws FOR MAN! To the unlearned, it seems God placed satan in a back burner while God
dealt with man...while satan was trying to keep God from accomplishing His will. Or perhaps
we have forgotten:
"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall
backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Satan was so intent in trying to keep up with God's precepts upon precepts, and laws and
commandments, and cursings and blessings, etc., that he got caught in his own subtlety!

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise..."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Same argument: where is there reference to "laws" against iniquity or sin aside, from Holiness,
when the angels were cast out of eternity?

We cannot make a argument from silence, though. Just because we're not told these things doesn't mean they weren't in effect. We're not told either way, so we cannot make a call either way.

We must look at the record, and we find none. The only record we really have is that God is just
and righteous. Being that God is righteous, we know HE would never punish anyone for a lack of
law(s): nor would God exceed his punishment.

But who said He had no law? The word does not have to mention what it was, and there was one, for us to know there was one. Again, we cannot say either way.

Then we must look at the record with God's dealings with man, and we find ample evidence
of laws FOR MAN! To the unlearned, it seems God placed satan in a back burner while God
dealt with man...while satan was trying to keep God from accomplishing His will. Or perhaps
we have forgotten:
"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall
backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Satan was so intent in trying to keep up with God's precepts upon precepts, and laws and
commandments, and cursings and blessings, etc., that he got caught in his own subtlety!

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise..."

All of that is moot, since the Word says nothing one way or the other. So we cannot dogmatically state there was no law or there was a law. In other words, we can't say anything about it, so must leave it alone just knowing god is just and all is fine. It doesn't apply to us anyway. God's word is not there to satisfy carnal curiosity and inform us of things that have nothing to do with the serious issues of our salvation and relationship to Him. I don't need to know if, for example, another element exists on a planet somewhere that is not found on earth, any more than I have to know if God had a law for angels or not.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

We cannot make a argument from silence, though. Just because we're not told these things doesn't mean they weren't in effect. We're not told either way, so we cannot make a call either way.
But who said He had no law? The word does not have to mention what it was, and there was one, for us to know there was one. Again, we cannot say either way.
All of that is moot, since the Word says nothing one way or the other. So we cannot dogmatically state there was no law or there was a law. In other words, we can't say anything about it, so must leave it alone just knowing god is just and all is fine. It doesn't apply to us anyway. God's word is not there to satisfy carnal curiosity and inform us of things that have nothing to do with the serious issues of our salvation and relationship to Him. I don't need to know if, for example, another element exists on a planet somewhere that is not found on earth, any more than I have to know if God had a law for angels or not.

"Except a man be be born again, he cannot SEE..."

Will God judge a man where there is no law? But there was ONE Law: the Law of Holiness.
Do you know what "crime" satan committed for which he was to be thrown into the Lake of Fire?
You want to see before you belive!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

"Except a man be be born again, he cannot SEE..."

Will God judge a man where there is no law? But there was ONE Law: the Law of Holiness.
Do you know what "crime" satan committed for which he was to be thrown into the Lake of Fire?
You want to see before you belive!

I do not care, is what I'm trying to say, because the bible does not say. And we read of no law of holiness of which you speak, either. The bible does not spell it our for us because it matters not in the long overall run. And so we cannot say what did or did not exist prior to the angels' fall.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not care, is what I'm trying to say, because the bible does not say. And we read of no law of holiness of which you speak, either. The bible does not spell it our for us because it matters not in the long overall run. And so we cannot say what did or did not exist prior to the angels' fall.

That's fine!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not care, is what I'm trying to say, because the bible does not say. And we read of no law of holiness of which you speak, either. The bible does not spell it our for us because it matters not in the long overall run. And so we cannot say what did or did not exist prior to the angels' fall.

Of course it matters in the long run!

Do you really believe that God would allow iniquity and sin in His presence? He would not!
God is Most Holy: and His Holiness STILL does not allow iniquity and sin in His presence.
Yes, the Bible DOES spell it out: It is found within all the Laws, statutes, and commandments!
They emphatically state God's abhorrence to iniquity and sin. Why do you suppose that
God created the natural realm: "...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and
for sin, condemned sin in the flesh...", and to perfect us for himself in the process! Or do you
believe we can be perfected while iniquity and sin abound?

No, Beloved, this tiny speck within eternity that we call the universe, and this earth, became
the battleground and has now has been shifted to our very souls.

"(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...".

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Of course it matters in the long run!

Nope. lol.

It has nothing to do with what God requires of us that is plainly the word. Nothing the word has not already said is required for us.

Do you really believe that God would allow iniquity and sin in His presence? He would not!
God is Most Holy: and His Holiness STILL does not allow iniquity and sin in His presence.
Yes, the Bible DOES spell it out: It is found within all the Laws, statutes, and commandments!
They emphatically state God's abhorrence to iniquity and sin. Why do you suppose that
God created the natural realm: "...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and
for sin, condemned sin in the flesh...", and to perfect us for himself in the process! Or do you
believe we can be perfected while iniquity and sin abound?

No, Beloved, this tiny speck within eternity that we call the universe, and this earth, became
the battleground and has now has been shifted to our very souls.

"(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God...".

The word already stated God hates sin without us knowing about these details you refer to about angels that are not written in the bible.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Nope. lol.
It has nothing to do with what God requires of us that is plainly the word. Nothing the word has not already said is required for us.
The word already stated God hates sin without us knowing about these details you refer to about angels that are not written in the bible.

You believe that what is required of us NOW was not known of God? Personally, I
believe God is omniscient.

We are clearly not speaking the same language because of certain words. But please tell me:
what does "Holiness" mean to you? And do you believe iniquity and sin could exist in eternity
(outside of the natural realm in which we live)?