will you know your loved ones in heaven

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by shazeep

and why i always say "the Church is actually clothed in truth, and alive with miracles."

Only the church of the Apostles was clothed in truth and alive with miracles, and I do not for a second believe there is any church in this country that even remotely resembles the holiness and miracles of the first century church. Often I hear claims but have never found one that could pass any reasonable test for truth.

The members of the church of the Apostles were all on "one accord" with each other and the truth. Today we have as many different doctrinal beliefs as there are bricks in the tower of Babel that was/is a prophecy of the modern day church (the reason why Jesus tells us to get out of Babylon)

Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

[Aquila]

The "resurrection" is being raised from the dead. Christ was "resurrected", He left his tomb "bodily". Disembodiment isn't a resurrection.

The dead will enter the fullness of the resurrection upon Christ's return, when the dead are raised their bodies will become "glorified" as His is. And those of us who are alive and remain at that moment shall be "changed", in the twinkling of an eye. Glorified as Christ Jesus is glorified.

Romans 8:11 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 English Standard Version (ESV)
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

1 John 3:2 English Standard Version (ESV)
2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

If this mortal body isn't glorified as Christ's was... we won't be like Him. You have a glorified risen savior ruling over a kingdom of... ghosts. lol

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The "resurrection" is being raised from the dead. Christ was "resurrected", He left his tomb "bodily". Disembodiment isn't a resurrection.

The dead will enter the fullness of the resurrection upon Christ's return, when the dead are raised their bodies will become "glorified" as His is. And those of us who are alive and remain at that moment shall be "changed", in the twinkling of an eye. Glorified as Christ Jesus is glorified.

Romans 8:11 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 English Standard Version (ESV)
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

1 John 3:2 English Standard Version (ESV)
2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

If this mortal body isn't glorified as Christ's was... we won't be like Him. You have a glorified risen savior ruling over a kingdom of... ghosts. lol

God is a spirit with a soul and Jesus has returned to spirit.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Man is a spirit with a soul and they are what is resurrected either for better or for worse. When a person dies the spirit return to God and the body returns to dust, Without a spirit a body is dead

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The body of Jesus had no sin, therefore it did not see corruption. Humans have sin that causes their bodies to "suffer corruption".

What do you think gets raised when someone is eaten by packs of animals, schools of sharks, vaporized in explosions etc etc

When it comes to the "return of Christ you are clueless

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Well, I am about half way between St. Augustine and Daytona (Palm Coast)

If you are thinking of heading this way give me a holler

Getting together would be nice

being as how that's about the only way i'm likely to start a convo about "prepared bride," i'll holla!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

God is a spirit with a soul and Jesus has returned to spirit.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Man is a spirit with a soul and they are what is resurrected either for better or for worse. When a person dies the spirit return to God and the body returns to dust, Without a spirit a body is dead

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The body of Jesus had no sin, therefore it did not see corruption. Humans have sin that causes their bodies to "suffer corruption".

What do you think gets raised when someone is eaten by packs of animals, schools of sharks, vaporized in explosions etc etc

When it comes to the "return of Christ you are clueless

Livelystone, you're failing to employ categorical logic and as a result you are creating a false dichotomy. You see, I agree, Jesus' body was "changed". His body was "glorified" into a "spiritual" body. Notice, I said, "spiritual" and not "spirit". You'll notice that His body was not in the tomb. It was "changed". He had the power to materialize at will in this glorified form. We too shall see our body's changed, in the twinkling of an eye. The dead will also be "raised" and their corruption (decay) will put on incorruption (spiritual eternality). We will become glorified spiritual beings, Jesus like Jesus. Jesus is our "elder brother", the "firstfruit" of the resurrection. Yes, even thought this body be laying decaying in the earth... it shall be "changed"... same body... transformed nature. Speaking of the resurrection, Job wrote:

Job 19:25-26 ESV
For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God,

Romans 8:11 ESV
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

John 11:25 ESV
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

John 6:40 ESV
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Corinthians 6:14 ESV
And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 ESV
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55 ESV
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
55 "Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

John 6:54 ESV
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Daniel 12:2 ESV
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Corinthians 15:12-32 ESV
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. ...

Isaiah 26:19 ESV
Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.

Philippians 3:10 ESV
That I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

These Scriptures ALL speak of a bodily resurrection through glorifying transformation. Yes, a REAL resurrection. We will fully partake in HIS resurrection when this happens. Some would say that our bodies are not like Christ's. They argue that we are fallen sinful creatures, and therefore there will be no resurrection of our bodies. But is anything impossible for God? NO! Glory to His name! In fact, the Gospel provides for our justification and sanctification. A justification and sanctification that yes, includes our very bodies!

Romans 4:25 ESV
Who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

1 Corinthians 6:11 ESV
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

My dear friend. In that hour, our entire being (body, soul, and spirit) shall experience a glorious transformation into a spiritual state of being that perfectly reflects that of Christ Jesus, our Lord. In that hour we shall discover that Satan, sin, and the grave have won... NOTHING!

So, as it relates to the return of Jesus, and our eternal state, my dear one... I am not clueless. I know that, as Job said, in my flesh I shall see God. That is "this" flesh in which I am currently housed. However, it shall be changed. And I will share in Christ's eternality, immortality, and resurrection. The saints of the most high will be glorified spiritual beings shining with indescribable light and beauty. It was this very light that sheathed Adam and Eve and faded upon their sin, revealing that they were naked. This glorified existence will be our very own. In this, we will have partaken fully in Christ's divine nature.

And that is only part of this glorious truth regarding glorification and transformation. After Satan and sin have been absolutely defeated, we read...

Isaiah 66:22 ESV
For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13 ESV
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1 ESV
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Revelation 21:5 ESV
And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

YES! God shall renew all of Creation itself. Not only will we be glorified beings... but creation itself shall shine with a glorified glory, restored, made new, untainted, and eternal.

God will have redeemed the entire Creation through Christ Jesus.

You ask about those vaporized or eating by sharks. Oh ye of little faith. Do you not know that we are but "energy"??? Atoms are nothing but charges of energy, compacted into dense forms that interlock to form molecules. And every single atom, every single sub-atomic charge and particle is known of God. It is NOTHING for Him to call them all back into place and unleash the power residing within them upon our glorification. Study up on your quantum physics.

Oh... and by the way... also study up on your Bible. You could use a "refresher".

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Only the church of the Apostles was clothed in truth and alive with miracles...

with all due respect, how do you know?

Originally Posted by Livelystone

...and I do not for a second believe there is any church in this country that even remotely resembles the holiness and miracles of the first century church. Often I hear claims but have never found one that could pass any reasonable test for truth.

well, as humans we naturally look for the Church within the definitions set for us by other men, supposed to be Greater; when God uses the Lesser among us to demonstrate the Kingdom. The Church is alive and well. Thriving. One thing i have noticed is that when i...find myself in Church?--perhaps; having had a hand in its coming about--there are no doctrinal discussions. There is no human leader, that i can ever remember. No one is praying for the Holy Spirit to manifest in the two or three present--at least not in the way we would accept as "correct." The Holy Spirit just...becomes manifest. In my experiences, everyone present seems to notice, even the uninvolved on the periphery. Children and dogs seem to gravitate around. Hmm, and i don't recall ever finding it by looking for it. Weird.

Originally Posted by Livelystone

The members of the church of the Apostles were all on "one accord" with each other and the truth. Today we have as many different doctrinal beliefs as there are bricks in the tower of Babel that was/is a prophecy of the modern day church (the reason why Jesus tells us to get out of Babylon)

Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

ya, like that. One accord--which prolly needs an update on its definition. What is "one accord?"

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The "resurrection" is being raised from the dead. Christ was "resurrected", He left his tomb "bodily". Disembodiment isn't a resurrection.

The dead will enter the fullness of the resurrection upon Christ's return, when the dead are raised their bodies will become "glorified" as His is. And those of us who are alive and remain at that moment shall be "changed", in the twinkling of an eye. Glorified as Christ Jesus is glorified.

Romans 8:11 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 English Standard Version (ESV)
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

1 John 3:2 English Standard Version (ESV)
2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

If this mortal body isn't glorified as Christ's was... we won't be like Him. You have a glorified risen savior ruling over a kingdom of... ghosts. lol

I just love it when someone quotes a verse from a faulty lens. If the body of Christ and our bodies are going to be like the one Christ had at his resurrection and ascension, then why did John say he did not know what he would be like when he appears? But when he appears we shall be like him. Even then the disciples did not know what kind of body we would have in resurrection and we assume we do now?

[shazeep]

amen.

Originally Posted by Aquila

The dead will enter the fullness of the resurrection upon Christ's return, when the dead are raised their bodies will become "glorified" as His is. And those of us who are alive and remain at that moment shall be "changed", in the twinkling of an eye. Glorified as Christ Jesus is glorified.

i note that this is usually posited as being "at some future date." I'm pretty sure that this is due to the deficiency in our definition of "dead," which is different for God. Understand I AM. Then read the following verses (imo);

Originally Posted by Aquila

Romans 8:11 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 English Standard Version (ESV)
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

1 John 3:2 English Standard Version (ESV)
2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

(which might have happened ten minutes later)
If this mortal body isn't glorified as Christ's was... we aren't like Him. You have a glorified risen savior ruling over a kingdom of... ghosts. but don't doubt that the Kingdom is alive and well, and operating in those who will produce the fruits of it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I just love it when someone quotes a verse from a faulty lens. If the body of Christ and our bodies are going to be like the one Christ had at his resurrection and ascension, then why did John say he did not know what he would be like when he appears? But when he appears we shall be like him. Even then the disciples did not know what kind of body we would have in resurrection and we assume we do now?

It is written,

1 Corinthians 15:39-44 English Standard Version (ESV)
39 For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body".

Just as Christ's natural body was glorified into a spiritual body, so too will ours be.

[shazeep]

In the sweet by-and-by, huh. You don't think that maybe you are building, raising your spiritual body right now? If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.