Oneness vs Trinity (Can someone give a non-bias)

[FlamingZword]

Here taking a page from the Trinitarian book.

The Oneness of God is a mystery beyond the comprehension of men and must be accepted by faith.

the finite creature, man, could never fully comprehend the nature, inner workings and thoughts of his infinite Creator. The much higher form of divine existence is mysterious to the lower form of human existence. If we cannot fully understand our own being, how can we comprehend fully the mystery of our Creator! Man's knowledge is restricted by the mode of his learning, which takes place through finite reality in this life.

If they can say it like that, why can't we?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Here taking a page from the Trinitarian book.

The Oneness of God is a mystery beyond the comprehension of men and must be accepted by faith.

the finite creature, man, could never fully comprehend the nature, inner workings and thoughts of his infinite Creator. The much higher form of divine existence is mysterious to the lower form of human existence. If we cannot fully understand our own being, how can we comprehend fully the mystery of our Creator! Man's knowledge is restricted by the mode of his learning, which takes place through finite reality in this life.

If they can say it like that, why can't we?

In other words, the oneness view is just as unexplainable as the trinitarian view?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by seekerman

In other words, the oneness view is just as unexplainable as the trinitarian view?

I don't think so, but some folk make it so complicated that they end up making it almost as mysterious as the trinity.

I think they try to over explain and end up confusing people.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I don't think so, but some folk make it so complicated that they end up making it almost as mysterious as the trinity.

I think they try to over explain and end up confusing people.

Your statement "The Oneness of God is a mystery beyond the comprehension of men and must be accepted by faith" isn't suggesting that the oneness view is unexplainable?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Your statement "The Oneness of God is a mystery beyond the comprehension of men and must be accepted by faith" isn't suggesting that the oneness view is unexplainable?

That is not my real view, I was being ironic.

Irony, irony, oh irony.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

That is not my real view, I was being ironic.

Irony, irony, oh irony.

Oh.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

That is not my real view, I was being ironic.

Irony, irony, oh irony.

Isn't that a song by Alanis Morrisette??

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jito463

I think we're saying the same thing, but with different vernacular. When I say "son", I'm specifically referring to the humanity of Jesus (who had a definite beginning). Yes, Jesus is God. Jesus is also the son of God, but in His humanity only, not His deity. When I say "created being", I'm specifically referring to the man, Christ Jesus. I probably could have worded that better, though.

When people use words like "who" it's understood as a person and "which" as a thing (like a body)


So when you say "When I say "son", I'm specifically referring to the humanity of Jesus (who had a definite beginning).", it sounds like Unitarianism (2 persons God and the Son who is just a man) or Nestorianism (turning the two natures of Jesus into two persons, God and man, Father and Son)

[Praxeas]

I would say the Son is a WHO (Yhwh) that is both human and Divine as opposed to the Son being just a body or just a nature.. Yhwh became the Son when He became human, not another person but the same person incarnate as a man

These verses describe the eternal Spirit that was in the Son - the deity that was later incarnated as the Son - as the Creator.

From David Bernard, the Oneness of the Godhead, chapter 5 "The Son of God"

He has two natures.
"From the Bible we see that Jesus Christ had two distinct natures in a way that no other human being has ever had"

"Son of God may refer solely to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh - that is, deity in the human nature."

"Man could not see the invisible God, so God made an exact likeness of Himself in flesh, impressed His very nature in flesh, came Himself in flesh, so that man could see and know Him."

"As stated above, "Son" does not always refer to the humanity alone but to the deity and humanity together as they exist in the one person of Christ"

"What is the significance of the title "Son of God"? It emphasizes the divine nature of Jesus"

"When Peter confessed that Jesus was "the Christ, the Son of the living God," he recognized the Messianic role and deity of Jesus (Matthew 16:16). The Jews understood what Jesus meant when He called Himself the Son of God and when He called God His Father, for they tried to kill Him for claiming to be God (John 5:18; 10:33). In short, the title "Son of God" recognizes the humanity while calling attention to the deity of Jesus. It means God has manifested Himself in flesh."

"These verses describe the eternal Spirit that was in the Son - the deity that was later incarnated as the Son - as the Creator."

He is the only One ever conceived or begotten by the Spirit of God. Thus, His unique Sonship attests to His Deity

Talmadge French "The Oneness"

Page 2 "Jesus, the Son, was 'the Great God' come as man. He did not reveal a tri-personal, shared Godhead or use the new words "Trinity" or "Persons". As perfect man Jesus was the visible, exact expression of God's person-- the supreme reaffirmation of the Oneness of God.

page 3 "The Manifestation of God as Father,Son and Spirit
God is the self-existent, indivisible One (here he quotes hebrew text, as Qal derivative, "The absolute One"). He has manifested Himself simultaneously, not successively, as Father in the Old Testament, Son in the New Testament (as both God and man) and Spirit in the indwelling of believers. The One God is revealed as Creator, Redeemer, and Regenerater. One and the same God is manifest, revealed, or made known, in Creation, in Incarnation, and in Pentecost.

Page 4 "Jesus was God in the form of man, possessing all the attributes of the One God (Gen 1:1; 1cor 8:6; Gen 1:
27; Jn 1:4; 3:15; Is 43:25; Mk 2:5-7)

Ross Drysdale
http://web.archive.org/web/200410160...om/drysd8a.htm
The Father has omnipresence, the Son does also (John 3:13).
The Father has life in Himself, the Son does also (John 5:26).
The Father knows all things, the Son does also (John 21:17).
The Father has all power, the Son does also (Matthew 28:18).
The Father has divine nature, the Son does also (Titus 2:13).

Every aspect of His deity is the result of the incarnation of the Father in his flesh

Daniel Segraves
http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html
Since, according to the grammar of Matthew 28:19, there is but one name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, that means there is but one person – one God – who is the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The God that we know as the Son is the same God that we know as the Father and the same God that we know as the Holy Spirit. Sharp’s rule does not require a fragmentation of God into three radically distinct persons.

The Son is and will always be subject to God the Father.
http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/2...1_archive.html
Human nature is, by definition, ontologically subordinate to God. Christ is one integrated person who is both divine and human. In order for His humanity to be meaningful, it was necessary for Christ to voluntarily limit Himself within the parameters of that which is essentially human. All references to the subjection of Christ to God, whether past, present, or future, depend upon Christ’s solidarity with the human race.


The use of “Christ” emphasizes the Incarnation. In verse 28 Christ is referred to as the “Son.” The identification of the Son as “Lord” calls attention to His deity as Yahweh. To identify the Son as Christ emphasizes His humanity and the fact that He is the anointed One. Paul’s primary Christological focus in I Corinthians is on the Son as Messiah. Except for four references (I Corinthians 5:5; 6:11; 11:23; 12:3), Paul identifies the Son as Christ. In I Corinthians the Son is identified as “Christ” forty-four times, as “Lord Jesus Christ” ten times, as “Jesus Christ” four times, as “Christ Jesus” four times, as “Jesus Christ our Lord” three times, and as “Christ Jesus our Lord” once.

Daniel Segraves “Reading Between the Lines” pg 24
Jesus is Yahweh
The final example of intertextuality relating to Genesis 1:1 underscores this idea. In Hebrews 1:10, we find these words: “And: You LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.” As we examine the context, the first thing we notice about this Scripture is that these words are spoken to the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 1:8-9 read, “But to the Son He says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.’” Hebrews 1:10 begins with the word “and,” connecting the words to follow with the previous words, continuing with that which was spoken to the Son. Hebrews 1:8, which identifies the Son as God by means of a quote from Psalm 45:6, indicates the deity of Jesus; Hebrews 1:9, which identifies the Son as the Messiah by virtue of His anointing, indicates the humanity of Jesus. It is only in His humanity that Jesus has “companions,” or peers. But then, in Hebrews 1:10, the Son is identified as Yahweh, the covenant name by which God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 6:3.

Since it is Yahweh who is addressed in Psalm 102, as indicated in verse 1, the Septuagint translates verse 25 as, “In the beginning thou, O Lord, didst lay the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.” Thus, the writer of Hebrews identifies the Son as Yahweh, the Creator. By its connection with Psalm 102, and by the connection of Psalm 102 with Genesis 1:1, the Book of Hebrews, like the Gospel of John and the letter of I John, informs us that the singular God who created the heavens and the earth is none other than Jesus Christ. He is the Word, the Word of Life, the very life of the Father, manifested in genuine, authentic human existence.

[seekerman]

So, God the Father is the Son of God?