The Role of a New Testament Prophet

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Sabby

I understand what you are saying.
Further, a NT prophet does not differ much from an OT one. When the OT prophets preached, prophecied, exhorted of a coming deliverer, judge, priest, King, Prophet, Branch, and Messiah, they were inspired by the Spirit of God.
This same Spirit of God provides inspiration for NT prophets to preach the bulls eye, big middle, and focal point of the entire Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ.

We have many prophetic "topics" today that imo, are way off the mark that Paul called the high calling of God in CHRIST JESUS. There are far too many people claiming the role of an apostolic prophet that use C.I. Scofield, John Maxwell, John McArthur, 7th Day Adventist power point presentations or Hagee for their eschatalogical references.

The role of a NT prophet is to preach the same Jesus that those in the OT did, imo. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He walked with Adam, spoke through the bush to Moses, provided a sacrifice for Abraham, anointed David and caused Zechariah to prophesy of that One who would enter Jerusalem on the foal of an ass.

We spend so much time chasing "signs" that we've forgotten that Jesus said the only sign that would be given would be the sign of the prophet Jonah, which was fulfilled completely in the death, burial and resurrection.
The gift of a prophet is not about preaching world events confirming Matthew 24, imo, but about the seed of Judah,
Ge..49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be

Sabby

Now that's what I'm talking about. !!!

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Sabby

I understand what you are saying.
Further, a NT prophet does not differ much from an OT one. When the OT prophets preached, prophecied, exhorted of a coming deliverer, judge, priest, King, Prophet, Branch, and Messiah, they were inspired by the Spirit of God.
This same Spirit of God provides inspiration for NT prophets to preach the bulls eye, big middle, and focal point of the entire Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ.

We have many prophetic "topics" today that imo, are way off the mark that Paul called the high calling of God in CHRIST JESUS. There are far too many people claiming the role of an apostolic prophet that use C.I. Scofield, John Maxwell, John McArthur, 7th Day Adventist power point presentations or Hagee for their eschatalogical references.

The role of a NT prophet is to preach the same Jesus that those in the OT did, imo. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He walked with Adam, spoke through the bush to Moses, provided a sacrifice for Abraham, anointed David and caused Zechariah to prophesy of that One who would enter Jerusalem on the foal of an ass.

We spend so much time chasing "signs" that we've forgotten that Jesus said the only sign that would be given would be the sign of the prophet Jonah, which was fulfilled completely in the death, burial and resurrection. The gift of a prophet is not about preaching world events confirming Matthew 24, imo, but about the seed of Judah,

Ge..49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be

I am in agreement with everything you've stated, that is with the exception of the bolded portion. The following is my "take" concerning our Lord's statement about the "sign of Jonas" that is found recorded in Matthew 12:39 & 16:4..... (this is somewhat "off topic," but is something that I believe to be worthy of note)

As I contemplated what the secretive, esoteric implications of these words of Jesus might imply/infer, I was immediately struck with the realization that He did not use words which would explicitly indicate that His remarks were applicable solely to the people of that generation, rather He said "An evil and adulterous generation." Because Jesus did not explicitly say "this" generation, then I am persuaded that He was not referring to His death, burial and resurrection, but to something quite different, that is to say, the restoration to life (resurrection, if you will) of the evil one which is to come - the Anti-Christ.

IMHO, I am persuaded that the greatest "sign" which Jesus said would be indicative of the nearness of His return, can be found in His response to the apostles inquiry about this event. A careful examination of Jesus' response to their inquiry, as recorded in Matthew 24:3-5 would seem to indicate that something even more decietful and misleading than even the "sign of the prophet Jonas" would become the most dominant, namely, the abundance of "false prophets" that would arise and deceive many.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Every version of the Bible that I have read (& I own about 20 of them) render the words of the apostles inquiry as being about a singular "sign," and not "signs" (plural), as if there was to be more than one thing that we should look for which would be indicative of the nearness of our Lord's return.

Please note particular attention to the very first statement that our Lord uttered in response to this extremely specific inquiry of His apostles. Should we not construe His response to be a veiled way of saying that the greatest "sign" which would point to His soon appearance would be the overwhelming abundance of "false prophets" that would arise during the period which preceded His coming, and by whose heretical teachings "many" (or, more literally, the "majority") would be deceived?

I also find it quite interesting to note that Jesus did not say that these "false prophets" would claim themselves to be "the Christ." By adding the word "the" (which serves as a superlative pronoun in English grammar composition) many of the modern versions of the Bible have significantly altered that which our Lord was stating concerning this matter.

My comments about this matter is not intended to "hijack" this thread, and indeed, should perhaps be posted in another which pertains to eschatological issues instead, however, I did want to take a few moments to provide you with some of my thoughts about this matter, and would ask you to pause and consider their merits.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Lafon

I am in agreement with everything you've stated, that is with the exception of the bolded portion. The following is my "take" concerning our Lord's statement about the "sign of Jonas" that is found recorded in Matthew 12:39 & 16:4..... (this is somewhat "off topic," but is something that I believe to be worthy of note)

My comments about this matter is not intended to "hijack" this thread, and indeed, should perhaps be posted in another which pertains to eschatological issues instead, however, I did want to take a few moments to provide you with some of my thoughts about this matter, and would ask you to pause and consider their merits.

I appreciate what you are saying.

I’ll reiterate my previous post; the emphasis on all NT prophecy was and is the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone, NOT some future taking away of the church, restoration of the nation of Israel or impending Great Tribulation.
I honestly believe most people believe the footnotes in their Darby or Scofield Bibles more than the words of scripture.

Mt 24:4
¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ…

Referring to those Jews that would come later on claiming to be the Messiah. Jesus is saying, Don’t listen to them, they are NOT me!

Later in the chapter Jesus says,
Mt 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many…the deception being that many would believe these false prophets’ false claims of being the Messiah.

The false prophets were ones saying there were OTHER Messiah’s. Jesus warned his disciples not to be fooled, because “if it were possible” they (the elect) themselves could be fooled into believing the claims of those false prophets.

By reading Mt 24; Mk 13 and Luke 21, we already understand that the “abomination of desolation” standing in the holy place was completely fulfilled when the Roman army sacked Jerusalem.

Lu 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Mt 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mr 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

It is historically correct to say that there were no Christians in Jerusalem when the armies finally entered.
Now some NT will say that there is a “double application”, which is a very recent or modern development.
It is very possible that some NT prophet's ministries exist through their identification with Zionism or the future rapture of the Church followed (or preceded, depending upon your point of view) by a Great Tribulation.

However the above mentioned scriptures do not, imo, represent any of those events.
Prophecy for the NT is completely wrapped up, in and around Jesus Christ alone, imo.

Consider again the words of Jesus,

Mr 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mr 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

And

Mt 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mt 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
In other words, contradicting Jesus' words about Himself.

Mt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
They would follow another Jesus.

The Lord Jesus is reminding his disciples of how tough things would be in a very short time. He was warning, equipping and at the same time preparing them for the terrible days ahead.
Again, the context is Jesus warning about following "other" Christs, and when the city was circled about by the Roman armies to NOT be deceived by their smooth sayings of comfort, or that God would deliver them. Jesus gave his followers a "heads up" as to what to do when the abomination of desolation ocurred.
The prophet Jeremiah had this to say about false prophets that prophesied against the will of God for Israel.

Jer 14:14
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
We need to remember that the lies these prophets were telling had to do with God’s deliverance. They kept saying deliverance would come from this direction, or that direction. One prophet, Chenaiah, (I think) physically assaulted Jeremiah over his difference of opinion. The facts were that Israel was destined for 70 years of judgment. Jeremiah preached both judgment and deliverance to the nation of Israel.

A person that actually believes there is a different standard for Jew vs Gentile today, or that the Church is subordinate to the nation of Israel and prophesies such, is imo, preaching deliverance to Israel not unlike those false prophets in Jeremiah’s day.
There is not a parenthetical Church subordinate to the Jewish race or nation. This doctrine is found in many footnoted bibles, but not in the words of Peter, or even John.

2Pe 1:16
¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Peter is talking about Jesus here, not the “end-times”.

2Pe 1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time [/I](read O.T.) by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
That “more sure word” of prophecy was all about Jesus Christ and the gospel He brought to the world by His incarnation.

The disciple John had this to say about false prophets.

1Jo 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Again, a false prophet was someone that preached that Jesus was not come in the flesh and the Messiah, the way, truth and the life.

We can’t prophesy by modifying scripture to line up with current events nor can we prophesy unless Jesus Christ is the focal point of all prophecy. There are no examples to be found in the NT. I didn’t even touch on I Thessalonians!

The question of this thread concerns NT prophecy. There is A LOT of false prophecy being taught as denominational foundation as well as in our bible colleges and seminaries. I can cite several examples but one most apostolics my age will remember was at ABI, the teaching of Jesus’ return in the 1980s, using scripture and current events to justify predicting a specific date of the Return of the Lord. Now, if these proponents had lived in the days of the judges and kings, they’d be dead by stoning. Thank God for His longsuffering in the light of such foolishness.

Jesus would be greater served by preaching about Him as the fulfillment of all the sufferings and shortcomings of man. This is what I mean by being a NT prophet.

[onefaith2]

What about Prophets who "read people's mail" Do you guys consider them prophets or only those who work in the gift of prophecy to reveal the hearts of man?

[Sabby]

One Faith,

Do you mean like a person will say, "I believe there is someone here with a bad back" (in a room filled with people)?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Sabby

One Faith,

Do you mean like a person will say, "I believe there is someone here with a bad back" (in a room filled with people)?

Not that.. I mean those who really can walk up to someone and say, You are dealing with this or The Lord says (This) and it be either what you need or it be something that opened your eyes to repent.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Not that.. I mean those who really can walk up to someone and say, You are dealing with this or The Lord says (This) and it be either what you need or it be something that opened your eyes to repent.

I think a better "word from the Lord" would be for them to get back into the Bible and stop meddling.

Some people are born with a temperament given to feeling empathy towards others and being sensitive to other's lives. Others perceptively "pick up" on visual cues and are moved to give people a "word from the Lord", when it is really their own emotion. Still others will give a "word from the Lord" because they are self-appointed prophets.
I heard one such fellow tell a woman in a prayer line that the Lord had just the right person "lined up" for her in marriage; will be good looking and blonde (no kidding). Another self-professing Prophet told me over breakfast that the Lord told him that September 11 was an "inside job". Have you ever rebuked someone so strongly that you regretted it? That's where I found myself. It angered me that someone would claim "spiritual insight" to that terrible event. It is totally hogwash for someone to come up with some of these lamebrained ideas of their prophetic roles.
I couldn't BELIEVE it when I found out that ABI was teaching the exact dates of the Lord's return. The reason these people are so "out there" (mail readers and all) is because they mistake "FEELINGS" and "CURRENT EVENTS" for prophetic revelation.
I go back to my thesis that NT prophecy is simply preaching Christ and Him crucified with inspiration and anointing using OT truth.

[BishopMHaywood]

I believe that preaching "should" be prophecy in the realest since. By that I mean that we "should" be presenting a MESSAGE given to us and through us by God, and not just a "sermon" that sounds good to us. If the message is truly from God, it is prophecy.

I also opperate in the classical prophetic ministry, God both shows me visions and speaks words of wisdom, knowledge, and discernment through me. One of the most amazing ministry moments in my life was when I ran into a saint I had never met before while looking through gospel cd's at Walmart, this person asked me if I had a word from the Lord for him, I didn't think I did, but as I began to seek the Lord in that moment I had a clear vision of what would occur in his life in the next few years. I have ran into that saint many times since then and he consistantly confirms that everything the Lord spoke to him through me has come to pass exactly. Glory belongs to God, the prophetic ministry is real.

I believe everyone who has the Holy Spirit has the ability to flow in the prophetic, but to differing degrees.

[fl4christ]

Believers don't follow signs. Signs follow Believers. As long as you are walking with HIM, you won't miss anything. Tell me one time that HE was ever late? Mary & Martha thought HE was once, but HE wasn't. HE was right on time.

Originally Posted by Sabby

I appreciate what you are saying.

I’ll reiterate my previous post; the emphasis on all NT prophecy was and is the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone, NOT some future taking away of the church, restoration of the nation of Israel or impending Great Tribulation.
I honestly believe most people believe the footnotes in their Darby or Scofield Bibles more than the words of scripture.

Mt 24:4
¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ…

Referring to those Jews that would come later on claiming to be the Messiah. Jesus is saying, Don’t listen to them, they are NOT me!

Later in the chapter Jesus says,
Mt 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many…the deception being that many would believe these false prophets’ false claims of being the Messiah.

The false prophets were ones saying there were OTHER Messiah’s. Jesus warned his disciples not to be fooled, because “if it were possible” they (the elect) themselves could be fooled into believing the claims of those false prophets.

By reading Mt 24; Mk 13 and Luke 21, we already understand that the “abomination of desolation” standing in the holy place was completely fulfilled when the Roman army sacked Jerusalem.

Lu 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Mt 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mr 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

It is historically correct to say that there were no Christians in Jerusalem when the armies finally entered.
Now some NT will say that there is a “double application”, which is a very recent or modern development.
It is very possible that some NT prophet's ministries exist through their identification with Zionism or the future rapture of the Church followed (or preceded, depending upon your point of view) by a Great Tribulation.

However the above mentioned scriptures do not, imo, represent any of those events.
Prophecy for the NT is completely wrapped up, in and around Jesus Christ alone, imo.

Consider again the words of Jesus,

Mr 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mr 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

And

Mt 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mt 24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
In other words, contradicting Jesus' words about Himself.

Mt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
They would follow another Jesus.

The Lord Jesus is reminding his disciples of how tough things would be in a very short time. He was warning, equipping and at the same time preparing them for the terrible days ahead.
Again, the context is Jesus warning about following "other" Christs, and when the city was circled about by the Roman armies to NOT be deceived by their smooth sayings of comfort, or that God would deliver them. Jesus gave his followers a "heads up" as to what to do when the abomination of desolation ocurred.
The prophet Jeremiah had this to say about false prophets that prophesied against the will of God for Israel.

Jer 14:14
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
We need to remember that the lies these prophets were telling had to do with God’s deliverance. They kept saying deliverance would come from this direction, or that direction. One prophet, Chenaiah, (I think) physically assaulted Jeremiah over his difference of opinion. The facts were that Israel was destined for 70 years of judgment. Jeremiah preached both judgment and deliverance to the nation of Israel.

A person that actually believes there is a different standard for Jew vs Gentile today, or that the Church is subordinate to the nation of Israel and prophesies such, is imo, preaching deliverance to Israel not unlike those false prophets in Jeremiah’s day.
There is not a parenthetical Church subordinate to the Jewish race or nation. This doctrine is found in many footnoted bibles, but not in the words of Peter, or even John.

2Pe 1:16
¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Peter is talking about Jesus here, not the “end-times”.

2Pe 1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time [/I](read O.T.) by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
That “more sure word” of prophecy was all about Jesus Christ and the gospel He brought to the world by His incarnation.

The disciple John had this to say about false prophets.

1Jo 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Again, a false prophet was someone that preached that Jesus was not come in the flesh and the Messiah, the way, truth and the life.

We can’t prophesy by modifying scripture to line up with current events nor can we prophesy unless Jesus Christ is the focal point of all prophecy. There are no examples to be found in the NT. I didn’t even touch on I Thessalonians!

The question of this thread concerns NT prophecy. There is A LOT of false prophecy being taught as denominational foundation as well as in our bible colleges and seminaries. I can cite several examples but one most apostolics my age will remember was at ABI, the teaching of Jesus’ return in the 1980s, using scripture and current events to justify predicting a specific date of the Return of the Lord. Now, if these proponents had lived in the days of the judges and kings, they’d be dead by stoning. Thank God for His longsuffering in the light of such foolishness.

Jesus would be greater served by preaching about Him as the fulfillment of all the sufferings and shortcomings of man. This is what I mean by being a NT prophet.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Not that.. I mean those who really can walk up to someone and say, You are dealing with this or The Lord says (This) and it be either what you need or it be something that opened your eyes to repent.

I am amazed that people do not see what is right before their eyes.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Do you know what a word of knowledge is? When someone comes up to you and reads your life this is not prophecy, Paul tells us what prophecy is.

1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

So In my humble opinion, there are many prophets in the kingdom of God we just don't call them a prophet because of our traditions have gotten so far off the word of God we don't know what thing are. We would rather take Websters over the word of God when the word tells us the meaning of a word.

As I was editing this I thought of something, I will throw out,

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Could it be the Corinthians had began to do what we have done, raised those that were used in one gift more than others to a higher position in the kingdom of God?