With one wave of the popes hand.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by notofworks

See, this is always the very tired excuse and defense....."But they do it too!!" It's like, "But Mommy, he hit me first". I really don't care how much people thrash Bush. None of it is right and their garbage doesn't justify yours.

But no, I did NOT defend the anti-GWB jokes on the forum when they were being told. I wasn't a member then. Just a thought, though.....there are several politically liberal members on AFF (I am not one of those, by the way). I never see them say this stuff. Interesting.

Ah, you misunderstand me. I did not say "they do it to" I said that they were not satisfied with just jokes in the vein of this one about Obama. I would have been fine with that. They were vicious in insulting the President's intelligence and vicious in wishing him harm, death, etc.

I don't ever wish harm or death on an American president no matter how I disagree with him. That cannot be said of the left towards those they disagree with.

There has always been political humor and I think it is a fine thing. what I don't think is fine is vicious humor that really are personal attacks. I also abhor hyper political correctness such as you display.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by notofworks

As far as "Respect" goes, I'll just refer you to what I just said to MOW. I find it troubling that all of us, as followers of Christ, can't respect the man that God put in office. That IS what the bible says, isn't it?

I don't recall where the Bible said God put "Obama" in the Whitehouse! Show that one to me!

As far as his lies and googling? You can google the same thing for any president and you'll get a lot of material.

Are you trying to tell me NOW that you do not believe that Obama has lied? If you are then I'm disappointed in you. You are following him blindly if that is your take on him. Is a little lying okay? And what GWB, Clinton, JFK or anyone else did, does not justify what Obama has and is doing.

Again, I don't want to be offensive to you. But it seems that you give more respect to Obama than you do your fellow ministers on AFF. If I talked to and about Obama like you do some of the ministers here you would take me to task, I think!

You're not going to pretend the Bushes didn't break promises, are you? GWB often used foul language, broke promises, and made questionable decisions concerning the war. Do you also not respect him?

I did not think of GWB as a liar. Give me the examples of his lying placed up beside Obama. And the deal about making bad decisions concerning the war. What President has made 100% right decisions. And much of what Bush has been castigated for concerning the start of the war,the Democrats were in total agreement at the beginning.

As far as this being a "Christian nation"......according to the numbers, it isn't. Less than half of the population confesses faith in Christ. I've heard plenty of pastors say that America is no longer a Christian nation, and really, was it ever? Agree with him or disagree with him....are those grounds to not respect him? I just don't see it.

So you are okay with Obama, the President of the greatest Nation in the world, getting up before the whole world and putting down America and it's CHristian relationship and then stand up and uphold Islam and Muslim, even fabricating the story about the population of Muslims in America. What was his purpose for doing this? If we put him down we catch it. But he can put down America and it's okay. ?????

I hope you take no offense. Don't mean any. But you are a reflection of your ministry and when you are intolerant with your brethern and give them no slack, but give Obama a pass, it questions your charity and the spirit of your ministry. Well, I've probably said too much. You don't need any "preaching" from me.

BeenThinkin

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I will tell you for the LAST time.......the Nancy Pelosi joke was NOT mine. Sam posted the joke. I mentioned it later but Sam was the originator. And for your information, the time you are talking about when political disagreement was "gentlemanly" was a time when most of the country was committed to the principles of the Bible. George Washington would have as much respect for our current president as King George! Completely different situation.

And NO I will not respect the man who holds the office of President. However, the scripture is clear that ALL authority is from God. The office of president gets my respect. Barak Obama has done absolutely nothing to earn it. Just give me a president I can respect and I will get behind him. It's been a while since we've had that kind of leader. But I'm not going to follow anyone who is leading in a direction which is contrary to sensibility and common righteousness. That's my choice.

Your post about the Healthcare dilemma was one of those that I read to our staff, and believed it was told humorously so I assumed you meant it as humor. I'll take your instruction as to what to call it.

I'm sad you can't respect the president.

I believe the gentlemanly adversarial political system was evident even well into the 1960's, even into the 70's. Heck, even Ronald Reagan worked well with the Democrats in getting his budgets passed well into the 80's and George HW Bush was and is still well respected by most liberals so I wouldn't agree that "respect" is a long-lost attribute. And as far as George Washington goes, surely you'd agree that many of our founding fathers participated in and supported activities that were VERY disrespectful, no? I would say some of their positions were FAR less honorable than those of Barak Obama.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, that caused rejoicing among the angels
and
I am happy about it too.

Thank you, Sam!!! Most of these people were church-haters, very anti-organized religion, and people who swore they'd never go to a church. Most of them just love Beatles music and came to hear how it was being presented in a church setting.

There's a great book called "They Like Jesus, But Not The Church". It's incredible how many fall into that category. SO many people are ready for the principles of Christ, but they don't like the church. We're just trying to make the church a place they can handle.

[Sam]

Been Thinkin said:
I don't recall where the Bible said God put "Obama" in the Whitehouse! Show that one to me!

The prophet Daniel told King Nebuchadnezzar that God had given him his kingdom in Daniel 2:37-38. Then in Daniel 4:32 it says that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men and gives it to whomsoever He wills. Daniel 4:17 also says something like this. In Daniel 5:18 it is stated that God gave the kingdom of Babylon to Nebuchadnezzar and in 5:28 it says that Babylon would be given to the Medes and Persians.

In Isaiah 45 Cyrus or Koresh is called God's anointed and it is prophesied that the Lord would subdue nations before him. This was written about 2 centuries before he conquered Babylon. From what I understand according to Josephus, Daniel showed this prophecy to King Cyrus after he conquered Babylon and Cyrus was so impressed that he gave the proclamation allowing the Jews to return to their homeland (Ezra 1:2-4) in 538 BC.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by CC1

Ah, you misunderstand me. I did not say "they do it to" I said that they were not satisfied with just jokes in the vein of this one about Obama. I would have been fine with that. They were vicious in insulting the President's intelligence and vicious in wishing him harm, death, etc.

I don't ever wish harm or death on an American president no matter how I disagree with him. That cannot be said of the left towards those they disagree with.

There has always been political humor and I think it is a fine thing. what I don't think is fine is vicious humor that really are personal attacks. I also abhor hyper political correctness such as you display.

Oh, I can tell!! You've made that clear. I don't see it, AT ALL as "Political Correctness", but merely the very basics of human decency and the Fruit of the Spirit of Love, Joy, Peace, Kindness, Gentleness, Goodness....

My point was.....no matter WHO does it, be it James Carville (who I just can't listen to) or a republican equivalent, I don't like the verbal flame-throwing. You brought up what people have done to republicans. But republicans ARE NOT innocent in this. Right now there's an anti-Obama group offering a million dollars for info about a Limo driver who may have seen Obama with another woman. Politics has turned VERY ugly and I don't like any of it. It's ALL wrong. But that doesn't excuse a Christ-followers from participating in crass jokes, in my opinion.

I agree...political humor is great. But not degrading crass jokes. I thought that "We" were supposed to be above that.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by notofworks

...
There's a great book called "They Like Jesus, But Not The Church". It's incredible how many fall into that category. SO many people are ready for the principles of Christ, but they don't like the church. We're just trying to make the church a place they can handle.

Reminds me of a quote attributed to Mohandas Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Sam

Been Thinkin said:
I don't recall where the Bible said God put "Obama" in the Whitehouse! Show that one to me!

The prophet Daniel told King Nebuchadnezzar that God had given him his kingdom in Daniel 2:37-38. Then in Daniel 4:32 it says that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men and gives it to whomsoever He wills. Daniel 4:17 also says something like this. In Daniel 5:18 it is stated that God gave the kingdom of Babylon to Nebuchadnezzar and in 5:28 it says that Babylon would be given to the Medes and Persians.

In Isaiah 45 Cyrus or Koresh is called God's anointed and it is prophesied that the Lord would subdue nations before him. This was written about 2 centuries before he conquered Babylon. From what I understand according to Josephus, Daniel showed this prophecy to King Cyrus after he conquered Babylon and Cyrus was so impressed that he gave the proclamation allowing the Jews to return to their homeland (Ezra 1:2-4) in 538 BC.

Sam, you think this means then that every president elected in the United States was God's selection and was His man? I don't believe that! Could be wrong but I simply would need more evidence that "every single president" was God's man of the hour. Maybe that's not what you meant.

BeenThinkin

[Sam]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Sam, you think this means then that every president elected in the United States was God's selection and was His man? I don't believe that! Could be wrong but I simply would need more evidence that "every single president" was God's man of the hour. Maybe that's not what you meant.

BeenThinkin

A couple centuries ago, Benjamin Franklin stood before the Constitutional Convention and said, "I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proof I see of this truth: that God governs the affairs of men. If a sparrow cannot fall without His notice, is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?"

I don't really know how much God influences elections, etc. He spoke to Moses and told him that He had placed the current Pharaoh where he was for that specific time. Reference Exodus 9:13.

I know of Christians who do not vote because they believe God controls who goes into office. I think God knows who will be in office and nothing ever takes Him by surprise. I did not vote for Barack Obama. I actually prayed that he would not be elected. I don't know what God plans to do with him. He may have been placed in office as a means by which God will bring this country down to where it becomes ineffectual as a major player in the world scene, or He may use BHO as the means for judging this country or bringing it into bankruptcy or into a socialist state. For all we know, BHO may be the Mahdi or Islamic Messiah and God is moving the pieces around on a large chess board. Maybe BHO will bring us into the time of tribulation (if you are a dsipensationalist).

"I woke up in a different America this morning. Government is expanding. Come quickly November! Better yet... Come quickly Lord Jesus!!" Pastor Joel Urshan (a pastor here in Cincinnati) after the Health Care Bill was passed

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Sam

A couple centuries ago, Benjamin Franklin stood before the Constitutional Convention and said, "I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proof I see of this truth: that God governs the affairs of men. If a sparrow cannot fall without His notice, is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?"

I don't really know how much God influences elections, etc. He spoke through Moses and told him that he had been placed where he was by God for that time. Reference Exodus 9:13.

I know of Christians who do not vote because they believe God controls who goes into office. I think God knows who will be in office and nothing ever takes Him by surprise. I did not vote for Barack Obama. I actually prayed that he would not be elected. I don't know what God plans to do with him. He may have been placed in office as a means by which God will bring this country down to where it becomes ineffectual as a major player in the world scene, or He may use BHO as the means for judging this country or bringing it into bankruptcy or into a socialist state. For all we know, BHO may be the Mahdi or Islamic Messiah and God is moving the pieces around on a large chess board. Maybe BHO will bring us into the time of tribulation (if you are a dsipensationalist).

"I woke up in a different America this morning. Government is expanding. Come quickly November! Better yet... Come quickly Lord Jesus!!" Pastor Joel Urshan (a pastor here in Cincinnati( after the Health Care Bill was passed

Thanks for the input! Just simply can't see "every" election, or as far as that goes, every preacher be placed in every church being God's choice. I think we're in the mess we're in because God gave us the ability to make a choice and chance to mess things up.

I think I'd be a little disappointed with God if Obama was his choice. Just kidding God! Another post asked if Jesus ever smiled! Boy I hope God does and that He is smiling right now!

Been Thinkin