District Puts WPF on Notice

[CC1]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Well, Scotty, I am not quite as militant about it as you are, I don't think it has a lot to do with dislike on the most part, I think most people are speaking from their personal experience.

My problem is that I just hate the broad brushing on any subject, from any perspective. To use words like 'all", and "every", and "them", I think these are counterproductive to any intelligent argument as a general rule.

I will not deny that ANYTHING does not go on in a specific place or setting, but when even common practices are used to substantiate a broad generalization, this is the definition of ignorance, IMHO.

These are the same thought processes that are used to justify any prejudice, and are not wise, IMHO.

Of course you realize that Scotty wasn't "broad brushing" at all when he said that we not only dislike standards but the people that keep them. LOL!!!!!

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by CC1

Of course you realize that Scotty wasn't "broad brushing" at all when he said that we not only dislike standards but the people that keep them. LOL!!!!!

Of course, I was hoping that he caught that as well. One can only hope...

I really try to stay away from these discussions, the back and forth over what does and does not go on is so far from what the majority if my experience has been. I just sometimes get irritated because when people say "it" goes on everywhere, and I know for a fact that what they are saying does not go on at my church, well, you know.

[CC1]

dizzyde,

I am glad you are here at AFF contributing and I am also glad you attend a church and have a pastor where the legalism is not the focus.

[tv1a]

No comments about the section I posted about the directive the youth dept has to teach the upci definition of apostolic identity? See the post six back.

Scotty,

In response to your diatribe, only a fool would not believe in holiness standards, likewise only a fool would believe their definition of holiness standards are exclusive.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by scotty

When I joined this forum I started out thinking this was just ignorance of the facts,

Now I know, its just out right dislike. They dislike standards, they dislike people who believe in them. They want everyone to believe that God Himself has shown them that standards are unnecesary, and I do believe them. I believe God convicts each one differently. But it cant be the other way around with them. The Holy Ghost can't convict me and my wife to adhere to certain standards. Thats not God , thats just the way we were taught.

ok , maybe it is just ignorance of the facts

Well, praise God for Him giving you those conviction. I see that you almost equate them with being a salvation issue, though, and that is what I stand against.

I do not dislike standards. I have some personal standards. But, what I detest are those who dare kick God off of the throne and make themselves judges over His people based on clothes and hair.

But, to broadbrush people as you have is religious hatred and heard heartedness. It is a sign of religion replacing relationship, and no one should be as that.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by CC1

Scotty,

I have come to the conclusion that there are those that rather than hear any constructive criticism would rather heap accusations on the criticizer since that is so much easier to handle that the criticism.

This demonizing of anybody who questions any of your sacred cows is a tactic that has been used in old time Oneness Pentecost for a very long time. Unfortunetey for you it does not work near as often anymore.

When I was growing up to question any of the extra biblicasl or unbiblical rules was labeled "rebellion" and of course we all know "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft" so there ya go - you were evil if you questioned anything!

I particularly loved it when you accuse others of painting with a broad brush then start your post by saing that you "KNOW" people like me "downright dislike standards, dislike people who believe in them".

ahh, so you caught that, good , it was TIC to return the "broad brush" back to you to see if you took it the same as you are dishing it out. Obviously you take it as well as I do.

As many of my conservative friends both on AFF and otherwise can atest what you have said is patently not true. However I am sure it made you feel better to accuse me of not liking people who keep standards. Can we start playing the violen now? Poor lil ole you being disliked by the big ole mean liberal. Wah, wah, wah!! What a crock. I guess the best defense is a good offense eh? Try to denigrate the person who is disagreeing with you? Well I think you have clearly shown yourself with this post.

No sir , but I will show myself with this one.

First off, you and your conservative friends can not attest that what I have said is untrue, there are simply too many post and threads on this forum that say otherwise. Is the violin and wah song and dance all you have? You can't give constructive criticizm unless you are involved in the construction, otherwise your criticizm is hardly constructive. That is just simply common sense.

Here is what I see. There are some who have found a "revelation" that in their view the UPC is wrong. Some have had their feelings hurt. Well as you say , wah , wah, wah. Thats life. Get over it. Why sit on here and bring down an entire org. of mostly good people with your insults because you may have gotten your feelings hurt by a few UC's that hardly represent the org. Thats the real problem isn't it, THE ORG, THE UPCI, THE MOTHERSHIP, "drink the kool-aid"(that one is funny to me, i like it). A governing body. Period. "nobody gonna tell me what to do". You right , it is the same ole song and dance.

So have you been to any churches here in the Arkansas district? In your 48 years of UPC travels in search of knowledge, what all states did you go to? Are you still traveling around and visiting UPC? Or did all your wealth of info come from 10 or 20 years ago and we are just assuming it's still the same.

There is a crowd here that believe as you do, that crowd is split. One part bashes UPC (and thats what it is, don't sugar coat it as being some all mighty, conviction from God, intellectual, deemed from exprience criticizm...that looks alot different than what has been posted) the other part simply disagrees in discussion, like me. You didn't like it when I turned the tables and painted you with a broad brush, but I'm crying when I complain that you do it. Typical.

You state that "almost 100% of the time"...talking out the side of your mouth? Is that a double negative or a double positive?

Your almost right 100% of the time?

Look at the post above, Bro. Price. has even injected his opinion to my own words. Lets quote:

"Well, praise God for Him giving you those conviction. I see that you almost equate them with being a salvation issue, though"-Bro. Price

Is that almost 100% of the time? Yet with that mere "almost" you go on to convict me of taking Gods throne?! I would be ROFL but this is too serious. This is how much some of you (dare I say the word) "hate" UPC. You will go the extra mile to turn someones words into an eviction of God. And last but not least, Bro. Price states:


"But, to broadbrush people as you have is religious hatred and heard heartedness. It is a sign of religion replacing relationship, and no one should be as that."

Easy there Bro. Price, CC1 will not like that. Lets see, what was it CC1 said about broad brushing?? oh yeah, lets quote:

"I can however make a general statement that I believe applies to almost all of the preaching that goes on in the UPC. I made that statement and stand by it."--CC1
(there is some more of that "almost all"/ all = 100%)

So I guess that means CC1 has religious hatred and hard heartedness.
In the meantime , tv1a says:

"In response to your diatribe, only a fool would not believe in holiness standards, likewise only a fool would believe their definition of holiness standards are exclusive."

And I said this where? Lets quote me:

"They want everyone to believe that God Himself has shown them that standards are unnecesary, and I do believe them. I believe God convicts each one differently."

Doesn't sound all exclusive to me. because its not. I gave all these examples above to show you , using your own words, how you are thinking. You hate UPC and what little you have seen in UPC so bad, that you apply what you have seen to my (or any other upcer) words just because we are UPC. And you do so (as shown above) with obvious disregard for what was actually posted.

If all of you want to criticize me for my beliefs, fine. But don't slam me and the UPC using your own made up version of how you translate someones words. While all the while hating the very thing that you are saying and doing to us.

dizzyde,
You did not hope in vain, now you see what my point was with the "broad brush". It is irriating to me as well, and hypocritical.

My true argument here brothers and sisters, is for respect. I have shown that I respect the beliefs of those who are different from mine. Why is it so hard for others to respect our beliefs.

I no longer pray for unity, this forum has shown me the near impossibilities of that, but I do at least pray for understanding. I pray for people to have the courage to understand others instead of underscore them.
Love you all, God bless

[CC1]

Originally Posted by scotty

[FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][B][I]My true argument here brothers and sisters, is for respect. I have shown that I respect the beliefs of those who are different from mine. Why is it so hard for others to respect our beliefs.

Scotty,Scotty, Scotty,....ah but here is the rub. Apparently you equate any discussion about why varoius elements of extra biblical legalism are wrong with a lack of respect for your beliefs.

If you take the time to reread the part of your post I quoted above can you not see where you are in essence falling prey to the political correctness of the world by trying to paint philosophical / theological discussions that might call into question your sacred cows as a lack of "respect"?

I have conservatvie and ultra con friends whom I respect greatly in many ways. Some of them have great intellect and other wonderful attributes. That does not mean I don't think they are dead wrong and mislead on issues like legalism and seperation. Just as I know that while some of them respect me and my intellect they think I am as wrong as wrong can be and probably splitting the pit concerning my views of the same.

Your skin is way too thin if these discussions are offending you. Should I emal Bro. Atkinson that we have another prime canidate for the Good News Cafe? There you will find a very constricted place of discussion where you won't have to worry about what you consider a lack of respect or any questioning of old time Pentecostal sacred cows for that matter.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by CC1

Scotty,Scotty, Scotty,....ah but here is the rub. Apparently you equate any discussion about why varoius elements of extra biblical legalism are wrong with a lack of respect for your beliefs.

Of my whole thread, you address one line?!?...hmm must mean I was pretty dead on with the rest of it huh?
But in light to the above are you saying that you can not carry on a discussion without being respectful?

If you take the time to reread the part of your post I quoted above can you not see where you are in essence falling prey to the political correctness of the world by trying to paint philosophical / theological discussions that might call into question your sacred cows as a lack of "respect"?

Gee, I can't talk with all of those big words all push together in a collegic way, but the jest of it is this. Respect is what it is. It is realizing that because one may disagree with another does not give one the right to insult or degrade the other, especially when refering to ones personal salvation and relationship to God.

I have conservatvie and ultra con friends whom I respect greatly in many ways. Some of them have great intellect and other wonderful attributes. That does not mean I don't think they are dead wrong and mislead on issues like legalism and seperation. Just as I know that while some of them respect me and my intellect they think I am as wrong as wrong can be and probably splitting the pit concerning my views of the same.

Your skin is way too thin if these discussions are offending you.

Your joking right? You still don't get it? It's not the discussions, its the arrogant undertone of "we are Godly and you are not".

Should I emal Bro. Atkinson that we have another prime canidate for the Good News Cafe? There you will find a very constricted place of discussion where you won't have to worry about what you consider a lack of respect or any questioning of old time Pentecostal sacred cows for that matter.

You complained that someone labeled you as "rebellious" yet you insult my convictions as "sacred cows". These are not our beliefs, these are convictions we feel in the Holy Ghost. Yet you as Admin somehow feel you have the Godly right of judgment to say that our relationship with God is flawed. What gives you the almighty right to be that judge?

.
This explains the lack of understanding or even trying to understand.

[scotty]

Here is another post from one who believes as you.

"I can also remember going water skiing with a boat load guys (no gals allowed) and we wore blue jeans and long sleeve shirts.

Then one day I'm sure I heard God say, snap out of it stupid...you are embarassing me."

Amazing huh? Why not just say, "I don't beleive I have to adhere to that anymore" Then my thought would be , hey if that is what God convicted him of then that is between him and God.

What if I said this in reverse. I don't know , something like:


"I used to not shave, had long hair, wore shorts, and went to the beach with women till one day God said to me, " Hey stupid , you are embarassing me"

Man I bet backlash would be 5 pages long, and I'm pretty sure you would lead it off.

[CC1]

My responses are short and address only a little of your posts because I am at work! I am trying to do due diligence to my job but respond to some of your very lengthy posts as I can.

You are completely predictable though as I see in your last post you used the old tactic of declaring that anything you post I don't respond to must be correct then. Good grief. Trying to discuss things with you is like trying to debate a Junior High school know it all.

I enjoy reparte' but will not continue to discuss with you if you are going to just resort to this kind of nonsense.

Talking about respect how about respect enough (not to mention common sense and maturity) to not make asinine statements like anything I don't respond to I must be conceding youare right.

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps not everyone responds to every point of every post you make because your posts are long and many of the points are not worth responding to? This statement is disrespectful and not one I would normally make but your idiotic theory that someone not responding to every point in your posts deserves the truth as disrespecful as that may be (and we all know how much you hate disrespect).