You (us) can talk about restoration till the cows come home and how God can do it instantly or over the long haul, or whether He should do it at all. BUT... How long does it take to restore trust? Especially when it has been completely shattered -like a pastor who has embezzled, molested, or cheated on his wife. Is someones word of knowledge that "he has been restored!" good enough for him to restart his job the next morning? Would you trust him with your money, wife (if she was pretty), or kids after such a word of knowledge was given?
Randy... remember... Scripture shows us a church that is quite different from our modern model. They were house churches with multiple elders. If an elder fell into sin, they were like a family that restored him. They would encourage that he be involved in the educational discussions again. They wouldn't side line him or relegate him to being quiet in a corner of the home or some pew.
Today, the corporate model of church makes it VERY questionable as to if we should restore a person to such a position. The money, the power, the potential for continued abuse, the sheer numbers of good men who would do well in the "position". I see it as a structural issue.
An elder in a house church could be restored relatively quickly, the group acting like a family wanting to see him "back" to where he was spiritually.
An elder in a house church could be restored relatively quickly, the group acting like a family wanting to see him "back" to where he was spiritually.
Based on my experience I disagree with this... in the house churches I've been involved with someone who participated in this kind of deception would be welcomed back upon repentence, but would have a long journey of rebuilding trust before they were ever put in an elder position again.
I would say when we love someone is is easy to welcome them back to fully trust is a different story...We gain trust as we prove we can be trusted...and for some that is a long road...
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Based on my experience I disagree with this... in the house churches I've been involved with someone who participated in this kind of deception would be welcomed back upon repentence, but would have a long journey of rebuilding trust before they were ever put in an elder position again.
Do you believe a fallen elder could be restored among the elders of a house church easier than a large corporate body like a traditional church with official positions, salaries, benefits, etc.? I'm not saying it wouldn't be a long process in either case. I'm just comparing the two.
Banning FB because it can be used to hook up with ex GFs and BFs? Better ban telephones too, then. Just sayin.' Oh, and mail. And better not set foot outside the house. And don't answer the door. There. That should about cover it.
AFF!!! Yikes! Forgot about that one! Better not have any internet access at all, come to think of it.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Banning FB because it can be used to hook up with ex GFs and BFs? Better ban telephones too, then. Just sayin.' Oh, and mail. And better not set foot outside the house. And don't answer the door. There. That should about cover it.
AFF!!! Yikes! Forgot about that one! Better not have any internet access at all, come to think of it.
Is it just a coincidence that "AFFAIR" starts with "AFF"?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you believe a fallen elder could be restored among the elders of a house church easier than a large corporate body like a traditional church with official positions, salaries, benefits, etc.? I'm not saying it wouldn't be a long process in either case. I'm just comparing the two.
It would just depend on the church... I understand what you're saying now, I took your last post as saying that house churches would be quick to restore an elder who'd fallen away and that's not what I've seen at all.
Do you believe a fallen elder could be restored among the elders of a house church easier than a large corporate body like a traditional church with official positions, salaries, benefits, etc.? I'm not saying it wouldn't be a long process in either case. I'm just comparing the two.
I do believe that in the smaller house church setting it would be much harder to commit certain crimes/sins in the first place since there simply is not nearly as many opportunities to hide things. It would be much easier for a pastor to embezzle money in a church of 300 or more with a classic business structure then a group of 12 in a someones home.
And again, trust is a key word in these situations. I do believe 100% that Jesus himself would tell you to forgive someone in any given situation but you would be a fool to trust them a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) time with your money/wife/children again, or whatever trust they abused in the first place, at least without major modifications to the previous situation. And why would you want to throw the same temptation at them? If a man cheats on his wife with his secretary and the wife somehow forgives him, would she be wrong to insist that he no longer work alone with this same secretary despite his pleadings of being a "restore man"?
Last edited by RandyWayne; 12-02-2010 at 08:44 AM.
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