A Relevant Holiness Message

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

Thin it not odd. I have hundreds of friends on Facebook. It doesn't mean I interact with them on a regular basis--some not at all. I keep a bunch if them hidden so I don't have to see their postrs in my news feed.

RM and I have known each other since we were teens and even did some youth camps together as evangelists in the early 90's. We both had a bunch of mutual friends and somewhere along the line we became FB friends. As far as I can remember, we have NEVER conversed on FB, nor have we ever posted on each others profiles.

I am sorry, T1. If it was anyone else but you, I wouldn't have thought a thing of it. Your siding with Daniel and his YouTube post just seems out of character for you. You've always come across to me as so mild mannered, it just threw me for a loop. LOL! Maybe I don't read all of your posts or something? LOL!

RM sees you talking here and knows you are on his friends list. It just seems that if you wanted to talk to him about this, you would contact him personally. He doesn't have to be the first one to step up. It's his church. He is the pastor and he doesn't have to answer to outsiders, IMO.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

PO - I just know what my pastor might say--and while as a congregation we might tolerate some craziness, we wouldn't put it out for "public consumption" if it was out of line with our church's teachings, dynamic, ideals, etc. I have no problem whatsoever imagining my pastor saying, "Hey, don't put that message up." OR "Hey, edit out that one bit about James Brown before you post it online."

I agree that it's ridiculous to cast aspersions on RM's character because he preached one thing and then had a preacher in his pulpit who went against his personal preferences.

I know we've had several old-school types preach for us, and frankly, you just never know what they're going to say. We're all adults - we have the maturity to let people be imperfect. That doesn't mean we completely approve of everything that comes out of the mouth of the visiting preacher. (But again--it would NEVER be posted on our church website.)

Amen for the bold!

I just don't think the song issue is on the same level as a visiting preacher coming in and preaching false doctrine or going against local church government.

Perhaps RM felt some of the things GP said in the sermon were worth remembering and didn't feel a need to scrap it.

GP did say something I really agreed with at the beginning of the message. It was about preachers wanting prayer for an anointing. He said, words to effect, "Laying hands on you isn't going to help if you don't fast and pray." And he said he didn't want normal church where you play three songs and have altar call. Totally agree.

Anyway, that is RM's call whether he felt the larger portion was worthy of keeping and it certainly doesn't make him a hypocrite.

Besides, if DA had not have posted his clip on YouTube, no one would have paid any attention to it. I know when visiting preachers leave, we don't pay attention to what they did while there or what they are doing when they leave.

So, if everyone feels comfortable that Daniel has spent time - and think about this - to know what RM preached the week before and what GP preached the following week, he's spending a lot of time watching RM and I would want to know why. Then he posts on YouTube, here and AI. That's a lot of work to try and bring a man down, don't you think?

Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. I wouldn't want to be in DA's shoes.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am sorry, T1. If it was anyone else but you, I wouldn't have thought a thing of it. Your siding with Daniel and his YouTube post just seems out of character for you. You've always come across to me as so mild mannered, it just threw me for a loop. LOL! Maybe I don't read all of your posts or something? LOL!

RM sees you talking here and knows you are on his friends list. It just seems that if you wanted to talk to him about this, you would contact him personally. He doesn't have to be the first one to step up. It's his church. He is the pastor and he doesn't have to answer to outsiders, IMO.

PO, I just saw the two videos together and it struck me. First, I have not judged RM's character not do I think he is a hypocrite, if that makes you feel better. I am mild mannered on the forum. I hate debates and I don't like to fight. Sorry I threw you.

I don't want to talk to him about this outside of DA's video compliation and the discussion forum. It really isn't something that I want to go one on one. I would love to discuss this together with a group of objective thinkers.

Again, If he had never participated on this forum, discussing issues, ideas, doctrine, and stuff then I would be like, "Hey, this is a lynching." But DA posted it here, where RM is and where he has the opportunity to discuss it. This is where I have posted concerning it for the most part. Why? Because I know he is lurking it. I'm not bashing him behind his back. I am posting right out here in the open and my identity is not hidden from him.

I'm not bashing him at all. I simply saw a contradiction between the two sermons and felt it was worth talking about. If you're going to be so adamant about how evil that preacher was and tear him down publically, God help you if it happens in your church the next week...maybe God was showing RM something...touch not mine anointed goes both ways.

Besides the fact that he had no mercy on the preacher he referenced in his sermon. I have watched some of his other sermons online and he doesn't have a problem verifying his stand by villifying other preachers...including his former pastors, the Jones brothers and their church Grace.

Oh well, the retoric has taken any desire out of me to really discuss the true issue which is...."What do you do when a huge contradiction in messages takes place in your church?"

Now I remember why I took so much time off from here......

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Amen for the bold!

I just don't think the song issue is on the same level as a visiting preacher coming in and preaching false doctrine or going against local church government.

Perhaps RM felt some of the things GP said in the sermon were worth remembering and didn't feel a need to scrap it.

GP did say something I really agreed with at the beginning of the message. It was about preachers wanting prayer for an anointing. He said, words to effect, "Laying hands on you isn't going to help if you don't fast and pray." And he said he didn't want normal church where you play three songs and have altar call. Totally agree.

Anyway, that is RM's call whether he felt the larger portion was worthy of keeping and it certainly doesn't make him a hypocrite.

Besides, if DA had not have posted his clip on YouTube, no one would have paid any attention to it. I know when visiting preachers leave, we don't pay attention to what they did while there or what they are doing when they leave.

So, if everyone feels comfortable that Daniel has spent time - and think about this - to know what RM preached the week before and what GP preached the following week, he's spending a lot of time watching RM and I would want to know why. Then he posts on YouTube, here and AI. That's a lot of work to try and bring a man down, don't you think?

Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. I wouldn't want to be in DA's shoes.

You've spent more in the last 3 days on this thread than T1 and I combined .. apologizing ... only to find out what love and hate mean to you ...

PO ... you're speaking jibberish. And now speaking for God ...

I'm glad I don't serve your god.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

PO, I just saw the two videos together and it struck me. First, I have not judged RM's character not do I think he is a hypocrite, if that makes you feel better. I am mild mannered on the forum. I hate debates and I don't like to fight. Sorry I threw you.

I don't want to talk to him about this outside of DA's video compliation and the discussion forum. It really isn't something that I want to go one on one. I would love to discuss this together with a group of objective thinkers.

Again, If he had never participated on this forum, discussing issues, ideas, doctrine, and stuff then I would be like, "Hey, this is a lynching." But DA posted it here, where RM is and where he has the opportunity to discuss it. This is where I have posted concerning it for the most part. Why? Because I know he is lurking it. I'm not bashing him behind his back. I am posting right out here in the open and my identity is not hidden from him.

I'm not bashing him at all. I simply saw a contradiction between the two sermons and felt it was worth talking about. If you're going to be so adamant about how evil that preacher was and tear him down publically, God help you if it happens in your church the next week...maybe God was showing RM something...touch not mine anointed goes both ways.

Besides the fact that he had no mercy on the preacher he referenced in his sermon. I have watched some of his other sermons online and he doesn't have a problem verifying his stand by villifying other preachers...including his former pastors, the Jones brothers and their church Grace.

Oh well, the retoric has taken any desire out of me to really discuss the true issue which is...."What do you do when a huge contradiction in messages takes place in your church?"

Now I remember why I took so much time off from here......

Thanks T1. I understand you a little better on this.

If I was RM or anyone else, I wouldn't give DA the time of day. That clip on YouTube was totally a low down move, IMO. A personal attack. I wouldn't answer him at all. That tactic doesn't make for decent debate. Glad he got it removed for copyright infringement.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by DAII

You've spent more in the last 3 days on this thread than T1 and I combined .. apologizing ... only to find out what love and hate mean to you ...

PO ... you're speaking jibberish. And now speaking for God ...

I'm glad I don't serve your god.

Dan, did you not say the videos were brought to your attention by someone?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DAII

You've spent more in the last 3 days on this thread than T1 and I combined .. apologizing ... only to find out what love and hate mean to you ...

PO ... you're speaking jibberish. And now speaking for God ...

I'm glad I don't serve your god.

Well, I certainly can finally agree with you on something, Daniel. I have spent way too much time on this.

But, just remember - I've watched you bullying and baiting RM before this clip came up.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

Dan, did you not say the videos were brought to your attention by someone?

Speaking to PO is like speaking to paramecium ... she's got it all figured out ... including the group think Voice of God schtick. Bless Jesus, she doesn't love Obama ... just wouldn't want to see him assassinated because the girls might miss him ... so she can't be wrong.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by DAII

Speaking to PO is like speaking to paramecium ... she's got it all figured out ... including the group think Voice of God schtick. Bless Jesus, she doesn't love Obama ... just wouldn't want to see him assassinated because the girls might miss him.

I'm just saying, PO kindof made it sound like you are stalking his website trying to find fault to bring him down. But I thought you said this one was brought to your attention by someone else...

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Amen for the bold!

I just don't think the song issue is on the same level as a visiting preacher coming in and preaching false doctrine or going against local church government.

Perhaps RM felt some of the things GP said in the sermon were worth remembering and didn't feel a need to scrap it.

GP did say something I really agreed with at the beginning of the message. It was about preachers wanting prayer for an anointing. He said, words to effect, "Laying hands on you isn't going to help if you don't fast and pray." And he said he didn't want normal church where you play three songs and have altar call. Totally agree.

Anyway, that is RM's call whether he felt the larger portion was worthy of keeping and it certainly doesn't make him a hypocrite.

It might show that he's more tolerant of people who disagree with him than some might think.

Besides, if DA had not have posted his clip on YouTube, no one would have paid any attention to it. I know when visiting preachers leave, we don't pay attention to what they did while there or what they are doing when they leave.

So, if everyone feels comfortable that Daniel has spent time - and think about this - to know what RM preached the week before and what GP preached the following week, he's spending a lot of time watching RM and I would want to know why. Then he posts on YouTube, here and AI. That's a lot of work to try and bring a man down, don't you think?

Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. I wouldn't want to be in DA's shoes.

I don't feel all that comfortable that DA put in that much time and effort. I wouldn't have done that, unless I REALLY had a bone to pick with someone. I'm not sure what DA's overall goals are. "Exposure" isn't the same thing as "holding someone accountable." T1 seemed interested in dialogue; I'm not sure what DA's end goal was, and it does feel very personal. (As things tend to when they get personal.)

I wouldn't be in the shoes of anyone trying to "bring down" another Christian.