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  #41  
Old 11-13-2007, 06:22 AM
Tina Tina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Would he enjoy the preachers screaming "My God, People!" every time the saints didn't respond as loudly as they liked?
Probably not. Most church members that I know don't like hearing that phrase used either. Shows lack of respect.. When a preacher uses phrases like that, I tend to start tuning him out. JMHO.

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Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover View Post
Well Pastor Poster started it!
Don't ya just love the threads that get started when people get bored? You can keep him out of any trouble he might get into today if he gets bored again, I'm going to be busy.
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  #42  
Old 11-13-2007, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Yeah, yeah, Prax. And shaving your back is, what?
Very hard to do ?
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2007, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ChristopherHall View Post
I think they would understand dancing for joy. Not sure about aisle running. I'm sure they'd be familiar with outbursts of praise like yelling Hallelujah. However....the concert like atmosphere of the local church would be lost on them. Throughout the book of Acts and for nearly the next 250 years Apostolic Christians mostly met in homes as a spiritual family...not large church buildings. Any musical accompaniment was most likely simple stringed instruments based on a reference in I Corinthians.

The preaching they were familiar with wouldn't be the virbrado filled tone of preaching we've grown accustomed too. The word "preached" in Greek is "dialegomai". It is a word we get our English word "dialogue" from. It brings the connotation of an expositional teaching that allows for questions and discussion. Sometimes to "preach" simply means to declare or reveal.

I believe they would most likely recognize a group of 15-20 people sitting in a living room of a brother singing as another brother played the guitar. Then there would be prayer and the teacher would teach on a passage of Scripture. There would be a period of listening and then there would be a period of discussion where questions could be asked and the congregants would learn essential Christian principles. Then if any were saved there would be repentance, prayer, infilling, and a walk to the riverside or poolfor baptism.
Well said Bro.
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  #44  
Old 11-13-2007, 08:44 AM
stasis stasis is offline
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What is important is what scripture has to say about 'worship'.

I Samuel 15:22
Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, that, as ye have heard in the beginning, that ye should walk in it.

Acts 17:25
Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

2 Timothy 2:8
I will therefore that men pray (proseuchomai) everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

gk PROSEUCHOMAI - from pros (toward, for) and euàxomai (to will one's self). 'Prayer' is to bow one's will to the will of another (God) - ie When Christ was asked 'how to pray', he spoke 'Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven.' Prayer is not ordering God around according to your will, as if he needs your input regarding his future acts (you are not God, you don't know his thoughts or his plan). True Prayer is bowing your will to God, obeying his commandments and trusting that everything that happens is for the good of the inner-man's growth.

The passage 'lifting holy hands' becomes clearer when we stay in context with the entire scope of scripture. Here are some more verses to make things even clearer:
--------------
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?

Ephesians 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Clearly the works of man (the flesh) are literally as dung in the sight of God (Philipians 3:8 - paraphrased). God is only pleased by his own works; Christ working in you to do and to will of his good pleasure (Philipians 2:13 - paraphrased). Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13).

(Okay, at this point I could very easily move into the truth of predestination, and the total depravity of mankind, but i'll save that for another thread.)
----------------------

SO, back to 'lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting'.

This scripture does not mean 'literally raise your arms up and wave them and praise God with your mouth (while your heart may be far from him) and do this without being wrathful toward the person standing next to you, or doubting that God is real'.

Instead, it refers to lifting holy hands (hands of the inner-man) to do the works of Christ, ie follow his commandments. The hands of wrath and doubting are those of the outer-man (flesh). The word 'wrath' is 'orge' which is feminine gender. This is the 'wrath of babylon', the feminine wrath, the passions of this world (vengence, covetousness, wanting more, more, more) which are of this flesh and an abomination to god. 'Doubting' is 'dialogismos' which means 'to discuss' or 'dispute'. We are to follow Christ's commandments as he spoke them, without frowardly changing or twisting them, or saying "Well, I think...". Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

That is not to say we aren't supposed to attempt to understand God's word. In fact, we are supposed to study to show ourselves approved. However, we must be very careful to not give the flesh any room, especially regarding the commandments of Christ. The flesh wants to twist everything around.






So, is God pleased with dancing around on the platform, shouting and screaming? Let's see.

Job 25:4-6
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Behold, even to the moon, and it shineth not. Yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
How much less man, that is a worm? And the son of man, which is a worm?


Do you think he is pleased with outward flatteries from the mouths and movements of worms (translated - maggots)? Nope. He is only pleased by his own works, him working through us to do his good pleasure (when we follow his commandments and die to our worm flesh).

I don't believe in a lot of the modern definitions that people have put on the words in the bible. The flesh has had lots of time to twist the word of God.

John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

We are to worship 'in spirit' (pneuma) and 'in truth' (aletheia). Staying in context with the entirety of scripture, the picture now becomes even clearer. We are supposed to worship him by walking in his truth, doing his truth, and speaking his truth... and that includes suffering for his truth, which will happen (trust me) when you follow his commandments. Especially in America.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2007, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
Very hard to do ?
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:04 AM
DividedThigh DividedThigh is offline
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i have always believed that worship is personal, if you want to worship in dance, shouting, jumping, screaming, if it means something to you, it means something to him, but decent and in order also matter, dt
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:08 AM
HADDOCK HADDOCK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Would he enjoy the preachers screaming "My God, People!" every time the saints didn't respond as loudly as they liked?
I'm with you on that!
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:18 AM
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RevBuddy RevBuddy is offline
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PP,

You're asking the wrong question. It wouldn't be important how we worshipped BEFORE Jesus entered the sanctuary. The real question is, "How we would respond to His actual presence in our midst?"

Personally, I take the "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." position on Jesus physically entering into our sanctuaries. Without a doubt, our response would NOT be "business as usual!!!" This is Jesus, after all, not the popular preacher from next door or elsewhere.
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  #49  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:18 AM
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MrsMcD MrsMcD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DividedThigh View Post
i have always believed that worship is personal, if you want to worship in dance, shouting, jumping, screaming, if it means something to you, it means something to him, but decent and in order also matter, dt
Worship is personal and just because I don't run around the church and jump up and down doesn't mean I am less spiritual than the ones who do.
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  #50  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:21 AM
HADDOCK HADDOCK is offline
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Originally Posted by MrsMcD View Post
Worship is personal and just because I don't run around the church and jump up and down doesn't mean I am less spiritual than the ones who do.
I agree.
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