dead God?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The ROOT word in Godhood is God. That means the definition of God is understood in the term Godhood and taken into consideration in a further manner. But we cannot neglect the meaning of GOD when reading Godhood. When we speak of fatherhood or Godhood or neighborhood, HOOD is a suffix, and commonly refers to a state, a condition, or a quality. In the case of Godhood, the state or quality is that of being GOD. Now, what do we think of when speakling of His GODHOOD? We think of everything to do with being DIVINE and DEITY, but not what has to do with humanity.

The root word in Fatherhood is Father. Fatherhood means the qualities or state of BEING a father. But if I said "My father" I don't refer to a state or a title or an abstract concept. I refer to a specific person. So when I say GOD I really am saying something different from GodHOOD

I did not imply you denied God is Deity. lol I am saying THAT IS ALL THAT GOD IMPLIES.

God is a word and words have meanings and meanings often depend on context. There is therefore no one cookie cutter meaning or implication. It depends on the context of how it is being used. In that song obviously they mean God who became flesh and not His Divine nature. Even Arph did not get that. We need to educate OPs on these things otherwise it's just going to remain confusing for us and Trinitarians.

[Praxeas]

Actually God's word directs what we think about HIM and HIS ways. That does not mean we can't use our own language though.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The root word in Fatherhood is Father. Fatherhood means the qualities or state of BEING a father. But if I said "My father" I don't refer to a state or a title or an abstract concept. I refer to a specific person. So when I say GOD I really am saying something different from GodHOOD


God is a word and words have meanings and meanings often depend on context. There is therefore no one cookie cutter meaning or implication. It depends on the context of how it is being used. In that song obviously they mean God who became flesh and not His Divine nature. Even Arph did not get that. We need to educate OPs on these things otherwise it's just going to remain confusing for us and Trinitarians.

As I said, I know what you mean, now. I still disagree, but I know what you mean and understand why you said what you did.

[mfblume]

Prax, here is what I mean. When we say God experienced death through the humanity in which His person experienced it, then we have to be consistent and say that everything the humanity experienced is what GOD experienced.

But it fails:

Jam 1:13 KJV Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Mat 4:1 KJV Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Heb 4:15 KJV For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus was tempted with evil. But since it was only His humanity, then it is not "GOD" who was tempted.

As another said, the bible never uses the phrase, "God died." And FOR a good reason. Whether or not you can understand the point people make when they say God died, knowing full well no one is saying Deity died, there is still reaosn why the bible never used those terms. They're wrong.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Prax, here is what I mean. When we say God experienced death through the humanity in which His person experienced it, then we have to be consistent and say that everything the humanity experienced is what GOD experienced.

But it fails:



Jesus was tempted with evil. But since it was only His humanity, then it is not "GOD" who was tempted.

As another said, the bible never uses the phrase, "God died." And FOR a good reason. Whether or not you can understand the point people make when they say God died, knowing full well no one is saying Deity died, there is still reaosn why the bible never used those terms. They're wrong.

Then either Jesus is not God. There are two PERSONS, or when it says God can not be tempted it is speaking of God prior to the incarnation in and exclusively through His DIVINE nature.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Then either Jesus is not God. There are two PERSONS, or when it says God can not be tempted it is speaking of God prior to the incarnation in and exclusively through His DIVINE nature.

I am not a theologian, and am definitely NOT a scholar, and I could be wrong. But I believe that the flesh that walked this earth, though made of God and woman, and filled with God, was not God himself. The bible said he that God was IN Christ, reconciling the world. It does not say God WAS Christ. God himself was IN the flesh.

Did the Son ever claim divinity while here on the earth?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well let me ask you some questions...what is "humanity"? Is Humanity a person or a nature? Is Humanity a who or a what?

Now...when you die do YOU die or does your humanity die? Is your humanity something separate from you?

Death does not mean "cease to exist"

See...my question is WHO died? Was it someone other than Jehovah or did Jehovah experience this death Himself through His human nature?

If that is the case then God did die...God in person, not God in Divine nature. If that is not true, then you have two persons....unitarianism, Arianism whatever

The easiest way to answer your question is that there is your flesh and then there is your spirit. The flesh is the body that your spirit inhabits while on this earth. When Jesus died, it was His flesh and physical body that died. His (God's) spirit is eternal. Does that make it a little bit easier to understand?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ms.tammy

The easiest way to answer your question is that there is your flesh and then there is your spirit. The flesh is the body that your spirit inhabits while on this earth. When Jesus died, it was His flesh and physical body that died. His (God's) spirit is eternal. Does that make it a little bit easier to understand?

Nope. Humanity is not just your skin. Humans are body, soul and spirit. We have human minds and emotions. BTW I fully understand it. I was not asking questions because I thought I was clueless. I was asking questions of someone else to get them to think.

Angels are spirits too...when you die do you become an angel? Or are you still a human?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I am not a theologian, and am definitely NOT a scholar, and I could be wrong. But I believe that the flesh that walked this earth, though made of God and woman, and filled with God, was not God himself. The bible said he that God was IN Christ, reconciling the world. It does not say God WAS Christ. God himself was IN the flesh.

Did the Son ever claim divinity while here on the earth?

Then you have two persons. YOu have one Divine Person Father and you have a second Person Son.

And Yes the Son did claim Divinity. The Son said "Before Abraham was, I AM"....And Thomas confessed to the Son "The Lord of Me and the God of Me"...

So Christ was not God. He was just a man? That's Unitarianism. Unitarians believe there is God and there is the Son. One is....God and the other was a man. Two Persons...not ONE from where we get the term Oneness.

How can one say "Jesus is God" and then say the Son is not God but is someone other than God...in Short some OPs are saying there are two Jesus'...that there is Jesus the Father who is God and then there is Jesus the Son who is just a man. But if there is ONE Jesus and Jesus is one PERSON and then Jesus is both Father and Son then what you have is One God who is One person who became the Son....thus the Son is God.

What some OPs imagine though is that He became NOT God anymore...they sort of want to have it both ways...He became a second person, just a man...he changed into a human person, but remained a God person...two persons...yet say there is only one person.

It's contradictory.

However I don't think Bernard would advocate that if you talked to him. I am sure he sees one Real PERSON who is God and who became the Son by picking up a Human nature...not becoming a second person.

Some OPs also want to make the Son an it...a thing...just some cool duds God put on like we might put on a sweater...So when the son was talking it was really just a puppet.

The means there was really no man or no human, because humans or mans are not empty shells of skin and bones...suits.

So in some OP thought nobody died on the cross for us....instead a suit of skin died. That's rather impersonal. I don't know about you but when it comes to saving my soul My God did not send someone else. He came Himself

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Then you have two persons. YOu have one Divine Person Father and you have a second Person Son.

And Yes the Son did claim Divinity. The Son said "Before Abraham was, I AM"....And Thomas confessed to the Son "The Lord of Me and the God of Me"...

So Christ was not God. He was just a man? That's Unitarianism. Unitarians believe there is God and there is the Son. One is....God and the other was a man. Two Persons...not ONE from where we get the term Oneness.

How can one say "Jesus is God" and then say the Son is not God but is someone other than God...in Short some OPs are saying there are two Jesus'...that there is Jesus the Father who is God and then there is Jesus the Son who is just a man. But if there is ONE Jesus and Jesus is one PERSON and then Jesus is both Father and Son then what you have is One God who is One person who became the Son....thus the Son is God.

What some OPs imagine though is that He became NOT God anymore...they sort of want to have it both ways...He became a second person, just a man...he changed into a human person, but remained a God person...two persons...yet say there is only one person.

It's contradictory.

However I don't think Bernard would advocate that if you talked to him. I am sure he sees one Real PERSON who is God and who became the Son by picking up a Human nature...not becoming a second person.

Some OPs also want to make the Son an it...a thing...just some cool duds God put on like we might put on a sweater...So when the son was talking it was really just a puppet.

The means there was really no man or no human, because humans or mans are not empty shells of skin and bones...suits.

So in some OP thought nobody died on the cross for us....instead a suit of skin died. That's rather impersonal. I don't know about you but when it comes to saving my soul My God did not send someone else. He came Himself

Since I am not a great debater in all this, I will bow to you folks that are good at this.

But for a little answer......

I do not believe God is a person, so I do not see 2 persons. I see Almighty God filling the man Christ Jesus, who is the Anointed One, the Messiah. The bible declares that "God is not a man, that he should lie" (Num 23:19). Now while the verse is dealing with the truthfulness of God, the verse still gives us a specific principle that God is not a man. Now is Jesus a man??