A Cult vs. A Church

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shag

The church can meet to study scripture together(instead of one man yelling his interpretation while others yell back "preach it pastor!"), discuss together life's challenges in each of our lives and biblical answers to conquer those challenges(instead of trying to answer life's challenges by weekly running a circle around the "sanctuary" screaming and stumbling into everyone else at the last verse of "catch on fire"), and in regard to the working of miracles if they are in operation within the church which is the people then they should not be limited to Gods "holy house" but wherever the people physically are in their daily lives.
Stop trying to win (sucker) new converts into thinking church(people not a holy bldg) is all about life INSIDE a 4 walled holy bldg.
For starters.
Sorry for any ranting, just lately where I'm at seems everything is all about involvement around a holy bldg.

You don't find Peter preaching in an open discussion format. He declared the word of God. I don't find people running and screaming in hysteria in the scripture, but nowadays people don't even want to even clap their hands in church. It would be a breath of fresh air to see someone get excited sometimes about the goodness of God. I call it worship.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

My simple way to tell the difference between a church and a cult: The true church of Jesus Christ will teach following and obeying JESUS. A cult is a group who says that the way to follow Jesus is to follow and obey them, as they "supposedly" follow Jesus.

No man can be a mediator between God and man, except for Jesus, and any man/group/fellowship/organization who steps into that position has essentially stepped into the position of being a cult leader. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and HE is the only mediator we need.

If a man/group/organization/fellowship teaches that you can't be saved unless you believe, and do all they teach, and do not teach you to follow Christ first, and be obedient to Him first, they are probably part of a cult.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The word cult is very general. Anyone could call someone else a cult and many churches may even have cultist attributes. People must be responsible for their own personal beliefs and must not give another man control over their life. I have many influences in my life, but no person has the authority to make me do anything (except God).

Originally Posted by shag

Where I attend it's often about Gods house attendance, fitting into the requirements to participate in Gods house ministries, and pastor pulpit yelling wanting the listeners to yell back aka helping him preach, and pay him("the ministry") 10% of your income for yelling at you his personal rules and interpretation of scripture and if you're not in agreement (even if u can prove its inaccuracy)keep it to yourself. Never miss a "service" without passing the offering plate so Noone misses a blessing..Obey those that rule over you so you can participate in Gods Kingdom by teaching, parking cars, or taking up offering at Gods house, anything to do within the 4 walls of Gods house, because that "set up" is exactly what God has designed according to "the ministry".

makes me sick lately.
Cult or church...? Well...

This is a far too common problem where we unknowingly worship and serve the church system that has been shaped for us over the last 1800 years or so.

I just finished reading "Pagan Christianity" and wonder what others have thought about it... I will begin reading the 'follow-on book' titled "Reimangining Church."

I have no doubt that the church i grew up in was a cult, but God can only reveal things to you if you're ready. Some people thrive better in a strict environment and I think God allows that for those not ready to break free. I don't question their salvation, just their methods. Unfortunately, once you do break free, they question your salvation.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It is easy to spew out all the things that is bad with the church. I think negativism should be expressed with solutions. If a problem doesn't have a solution than I should shake the dust off and move on. I don't mind complaints, but I want to know what could make things better, explicitly.

ha well you asked for "hindrances." Most of us have completely insulated ourselves from God; and what will explicitly make things better would prolly be hard for most people to accept.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ha well you asked for "hindrances." Most of us have completely insulated ourselves from God; and what will explicitly make things better would prolly be hard for most people to accept.

I guess I did. Too much to process at once. I really do see churches restructuring much of how they do things, though. I am all for improving things that need improvement, but there are some fundamentals that can't be improved upon.

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I guess I did. Too much to process at once. I really do see churches restructuring much of how they do things, though. I am all for improving things that need improvement, but there are some fundamentals that can't be improved upon.

These are the fundementalls that matter

He. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


For centuries clergy has assumed they have the above doctrines down pat.

Then whenever someone says otherwise they scream end time falling away, false prophet etc etc.

Finally it comes to the point in time when God says.......... "let the wicked be wicked and the righteous be righteous"

IMO, that point in time has arrived

[votivesoul]

Proper solutions cannot be discerned and implemented if the problems are not properly understood.

Until there is agreement on the problems, it's nearly useless talking about solutions.

The people of God need an unbiased, safe environment to air sincere grievances.

The people of God need an unbiased, safe environment to receive sincere redress of those grievances.

The people of God need an unbiased, safe environment to explore sincere questions without threat.

Without a structure that permits those three needs, the "problems" are never going to be fixed.

As for me, I would ask one question:

Why does the NASB translate Mattthew 23:10 the way it does?

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

If you can answer, then you will finally know what the problem is, and so, understand it properly enough to offer valuable solutions.

[shazeep]

very nice. all the translations seem to say that?

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I guess I did. Too much to process at once. I really do see churches restructuring much of how they do things, though. I am all for improving things that need improvement, but there are some fundamentals that can't be improved upon.

hmm. How do you know?

[good samaritan]

know what?

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

know what?

How about an easy one?

Do you really think a fair and just God would condemn all of who never heard of His Son' (let alone His name or life, death, and resurrection) to in the life that follows this one forever burning in some sort of napalm environment?

Have you ever given thought to the possibility that God considers what you teach (if you are part of the greater percentage of "norm") to be totally repugnant to Him?

Christians who do are no better than muslims who teach their same brand of eternal "hell fire" about those who do not follow their "brand of God".

If you had the first inkling of what 'saved by fire' means you would shed your 'clerical robes' and seek to put on Christ instead!!!

(and this is just an easy to see problem with what is taught in all of the evangelical churches and not just those of the pentecostal flavor)

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Proper solutions cannot be discerned and implemented if the problems are not properly understood.

Until there is agreement on the problems, it's nearly useless talking about solutions.

The people of God need an unbiased, safe environment to air sincere grievances.

The people of God need an unbiased, safe environment to receive sincere redress of those grievances.

The people of God need an unbiased, safe environment to explore sincere questions without threat.

Without a structure that permits those three needs, the "problems" are never going to be fixed.

As for me, I would ask one question:

Why does the NASB translate Mattthew 23:10 the way it does?



If you can answer, then you will finally know what the problem is, and so, understand it properly enough to offer valuable solutions.

I like the manner in which the Message Bible states Jesus' discourse with His disciples about the matter ..... (Matthew 23:1-12)

"Now Jesus turned to address his disciples, along with the crowd that had gathered with them. “The religion scholars and Pharisees are competent teachers in God’s Law. You won’t go wrong in following their teachings on Moses. But be careful about following them. They talk a good line, but they don’t live it. They don’t take it into their hearts and live it out in their behavior. It’s all spit-and-polish veneer.

“Instead of giving you God’s Law as food and drink by which you can banquet on God, they package it in bundles of rules, loading you down like pack animals. They seem to take pleasure in watching you stagger under these loads, and wouldn’t think of lifting a finger to help. Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the most prominent positions, preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called ‘Doctor’ and ‘Reverend.’

“Don’t let people do that to you, put you on a pedestal like that. You all have a single Teacher, and you are all classmates. Don’t set people up as experts over your life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; let him tell you what to do. No one else should carry the title of ‘Father’; you have only one Father, and he’s in heaven. And don’t let people maneuver you into taking charge of them. There is only one Life-Leader for you and them—Christ.

“Do you want to stand out? Then step down. Be a servant. If you puff yourself up, you’ll get the wind knocked out of you. But if you’re content to simply be yourself, your life will count for plenty."

Its a shame that so many have failed/neglected these instructions!