UPCI pastor resigns amid teen sex charges - Page 5

rgcraig · #41 09-22-2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

What is weird is how so far, there are people saying the pastor is innocent until proven guilty (even though the article says he admitted guilt) and the girl is being given down the road. The balance is way off here.

I don't think anyone has said he's innocent. They were just questioning if he admitted guilt. No doubt at all he's guilty.

And, I don't think anyone is saying it's the girl's fault either.

A man his age is a perv to have sex with a 16 year old even if they are willing to do so. And, my heart goes out to her because she's messed up to think that allowing a perv old guy like that to have sex with her is okay.

The first mistake was he should have never counseled her without a woman being present. It doesn't state that a woman was or wasn't, but I bet you anything with this outcome, there wasn't a woman present.

ILG · #42 09-22-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Both sides. I have said the pastor is guilty. And its easy to throw the book at him and point fingers and say lock the pervert up and problem solved. But even then the problem is not solved. Nobody wants to confront the other side of the problem. No body wants to bring themselves to admit that we have a problem today with our teenagers not being as angelic as we like to think. Until this side of the problem comes to your living room you can hide your head in the sand. I can't.

Maybe today or tommorow I will tell my story. Not sure I have time today, not sure if most will understand or stick their nose in the air like some in my church and say "well thats just your daughter, mine would never do that". Yet I have proof on my daughters computer that their daughters were no different. But I didnt tell them, dont feel thats my place.

Either way, until or unless you live through it, see it face to face, I understand why I appear sick to you. Believe me, I wish I no experience to comment in a thread such as this.

I know there is a problem with teens today. To me, that is really not part of the equation in this particular situation.

rgcraig · #43 09-22-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

I know there is a problem with teens today. To me, that is really not part of the equation in this particular situation.

I think it is a part of it. There are other girls in his church, it's stated it had never happened before. So, he knew from something counseling her and that's why he zeroed in on her. Not blaming HER at ALL.

scotty · #44 09-22-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG

I know there is a problem with teens today. To me, that is really not part of the equation in this particular situation.

Why not ? What was she thinking ? Sneaking out of her home to have sex with a grown man, pastor or not thats really irrelevant to me. Why did she feel she had to go through with it ? The problem is very much a part of this equation. This was not rape, it was consentual sex. She consented to have sex with him. Let me reword that , "SHE WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM" . Yes, its very much a part of this equation.

coadie · #45 09-22-2010, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I don't think anyone has said he's innocent. They were just questioning if he admitted guilt. No doubt at all he's guilty.

And, I don't think anyone is saying it's the girl's fault either.

A man his age is a perv to have sex with a 16 year old even if they are willing to do so. And, my heart goes out to her because she's messed up to think that allowing a perv old guy like that to have sex with her is okay.

The first mistake was he should have never counseled her without a woman being present. It doesn't state that a woman was or wasn't, but I bet you anything with this outcome, there wasn't a woman present.

If he is into counseling, he should read up on ethics and take a few classes. One of the current issues is taking a risk of a false accusation. Good hedges protect the counselor.

rgcraig · #46 09-22-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Why not ? What was she thinking ? Sneaking out of her home to have sex with a grown man, pastor or not thats really irrelevant to me. Why did she feel she had to go through with it ? The problem is very much a part of this equation. This was not rape, it was consentual sex. She consented to have sex with him. Let me reword that , "SHE WANTED TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM" . Yes, its very much a part of this equation.

Scotty, I hope some time you can share your story. Because I understand what you are saying. I cannot imagine the heartbreak you have had to deal with your own girls.

Without getting too personal and if you want to answer me via PM that's okay too, but I have a question. Since your daughters DO have you (a father) in their lives, do you feel it's a self-esteem issue with them?

geekette · #47 09-22-2010, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Sorry, this 16 year old girl was not molested.

Maybe if she was 6 or maybe even 12.

16?

Unless it was against her will, she was NOT molested.

I want to use some very strong language here. But I'll content myself with saying, Jermyn Davidson, the law thankfully does NOT agree with you.

What you're doing here is shaming the young woman, who is not guilty, for something that the much older man should not have done. He's the responsible adult--there's a reason why 16 YO kids are not adults! This happens over and over and over again. Go look at that story I posted from Utah earlier in this thread.

Jermyn Davidson · #48 09-22-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekette

I want to use some very strong language here. But I'll content myself with saying, Jermyn Davidson, the law thankfully does NOT agree with you.

What you're doing here is shaming the young woman, who is not guilty, for something that the much older man should not have done. He's the responsible adult--there's a reason why 16 YO kids are not adults! This happens over and over and over again. Go look at that story I posted from Utah earlier in this thread.

Ok.

If a 16 year old breaks a law, prosecute them as an adult.

A 16 year old has sex, they're simply misguided.

The 16 year old attended church and knows that premarrital sex is wrong.

She knows it was wrong to do it with a married man.

Neither one of these two are victims here.

geekette · #49 09-22-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coadie

If the charge is true, the man has no excuse. If the case is not true, he still didn't have boundaries, accountability and hedges in place.

She at her age can't make informed and good decisions.
1 She can have an abortion without parental consent
2 An abortionist if she was preggers would not report this to the law
3 They teach sexual misconduct early and often in public schools
4 The safe schools czar is actually pushing education for promiscous behaviors.

Oh, this has nothing to do with abortion, but you're so willing to drag that in here. Get back to the topic, please!

I'm really disgusted with the comments coming from some people. There's a reason why we make legal differences between children and adults, and that's because adults are presumed to be, well, Adult. On top of that, if you're in a certain position of trust with a youth, then more is expected of you. This man abused that trust and knew or should have known full well that having a relationship with a 16 YO is illegal and wrong. What you're doing here is blaming the victim.

geekette · #50 09-22-2010, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Ok.

If a 16 year old breaks a law, prosecute them as an adult.

A 16 year old has sex, they're simply misguided.

The 16 year old attended church and knows that premarrital sex is wrong.

She knows it was wrong to do it with a married man.

Neither one of these two are victims here.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

You are wrong and you are blaming the victim. I'm calling you out and I hope to God you do not have anything to do with young women, because what you're saying here is evil and disgusting. Again: the adult is the responsible party here, and this man, who was in a position of trust, was doubly responsible to act honorably towards the teenager.

I doubt you think of yourself as liberal, but you're basically wanting to lower the age of consent and make this not a crime.