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  #41  
Old 07-01-2010, 12:56 PM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
Ya know Diggin,

The thing that the dispees fear the most is knowledge. The more people study, the more that they learn, the more that Truth is revealed and lies are exposed.

It must stink to be a dispee and know that the sand castles they have built are going to come crashing down over time.
Well I don't know if people knowingly fear knowledge. I think all people want truth. But I can remember when things would come my way that "made me nervous". I wasn't sure how I was going to defend this or that. But, in my heart, I felt sure I was right and they were wrong and I commenced to "winging it" the best I could.

When I saw further truth I bowed before it. But until I could see past my preconceptions I guarded what I considered to be truth because, to me, it was truth and I loved it.

It's hard to see past well ingrained doctrine but I don't feel that people willingly and actively fear & shun knowledge. We all defend what we see as truth as honestly as we can until we see differently.

And each time we see... it is only God that allows it to happen.
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2010, 09:37 PM
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
how can the church still be a virgin bride with children????
Well, "she" at one time had actually been a "prostitute." She is a "virgin" bride because she has been "granted" the honor of wearing white.
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  #43  
Old 07-05-2010, 03:16 PM
pastor febus pastor febus is offline
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Right, I was refering to the day of pentecost could have been the espousing but consumation later.
You are correct my dear brother and this is why.
We need to recognize the parallel between Mount Sinai and Pentecost, both were 40 yr. periods both initiated their respective covenants. Both were depicted in scripture as times of betrothal, both were transitional.

2 Corinthians 11:2

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ
KJV

Jeremiah 2:2

2 Go and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals , when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown.
KJV

By virtue of the covenantal nature of both events, those entering each covenant were considered children of God. The problem most people have with this 40-year period is that they fail to recognize the consummation of both covenants as they enter "the land flowing with milk and honey" at the end of their respective generational journeys. This is when the resurrection sealed the New Testament covenant. The status of both old and New Testament saints were in transition, they only possessed the “earnest of their inheritance.
The inheritance for the Old Testament saints was Canaan Land. The inheritance for the New Testament saints was eternal life. This is why the Holy Ghost is depicted as the “earnest” of their inheritance. The resurrection not only liberated those in the grave but it also imputed eternal life to those living. Death lost its hold on those who survived 70 ad. They would circumvent the grave at natural death and would immediately receive their eternal reward.

The fact that both 40-year periods were depicted as betrothal or espousal intervals is telling. This is because new birth is evidenced during that time. Obviously, Pentecost was not a full birth by virtue it necessitated a fulfillment at the consummation in 70 AD.

All the types have to be represented in scripture. As I stated before the scriptures illustrate that the first century church was betrothed and ready to be presented to the Lord as "a chaste virgin" unto the Lord".

The only biblical application I know of here is that Mary(a virgin) was found with child conceived of by the Holy Ghost. She was with child yet un married.The hundred and fourty four "virgins" in Revelation 14:3-4 are depicted as the firstfruits unto the Lord thus signifying they were members of the First harvest. They were also described as "virgins". This association continues with the 10 virgins of Matt. 25. This also places these events in the first century because the first harvest of souls is aligned with the feast of Pentecost

Good to meet with you again
Bro.Febus

Last edited by pastor febus; 07-05-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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  #44  
Old 07-05-2010, 09:27 PM
pastor febus pastor febus is offline
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

Some are saying that the marriage of the bridegroom and the bride occurred at Pentecost. If that were so, how do they reconcile this following passage. Obviously, the book of Revelation was written well after Pentecost how can this scripture represent the event if the marriage is depicted in the future. Is the bride getting ready to be married again?

(Rev 19:6) And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
(Rev 19:7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(Rev 19:8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

and

What is she prepairing herself for? This is the second to the last chapter of the bible! Acts 2 is at least 36 years prior to the writing of this passage.
(Rev 21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

Last edited by pastor febus; 07-05-2010 at 09:33 PM.
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:20 AM
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Well, "she" at one time had actually been a "prostitute." She is a "virgin" bride because she has been "granted" the honor of wearing white.
It is not the bible that indicates virginity by wearing white. That is am extrabiblical tradition. White means biblically that she is righteous. Jerusalem above is the New Jerusalem and is our mother. You cannot have a virgin who has children comprised of the church. Corporately, the church is the bride. Individually, the church members are the children.
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  #46  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:26 AM
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

Matthew 22 shows the city being destroyed and the marriage occurring afterwards, when the marriage was meant to occur without destruction of the city. Those initially bidden rejected the invite. It all points back to the rejection of Jesus by Jerusalem in Matt 21. This shows Israel's rejection of Jesus brought on the destruction of Jerusalem, for which reason Jesus wept in Matt 23. Ever since Jerusalem rejected Jesus in Matt 21, each chapter afterwards in Matthew shows parable after parable of either another nation (the church) getting the Kingdom instead of the Jews, or warnings to the church members to likewise not reject Jesus as Jerusalem did at pain of destruction with Jerusalem.

Something about Jerusalem's destruction marked a marriage. We see the same pattern of Matt 22 in Revelation 18-21. Destruction of the city first and then the marriage. It is has something to do with KINGDOM. Christ referred to that coming in destruction as a coming in His Kingdom. Christ has been on the throne of David since His ascension, and His dominion is the entire church age. And He came in His Kingdom (authority) when Jerusalem was wiped out, the former bride of Christ who turned harlot (Ezekiel 16).
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Last edited by mfblume; 07-07-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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  #47  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:32 AM
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Matthew 22 shows the city being destroyed and the marriage occurring afterwards, when the marriage was meant to occur without destruction of the city. Those initially bidden rejected the invite. It all points back to the rejection of Jesus by Jerusalem in Matt 21. This shows Israel's rejection of Jesus brought on the destruction of Jerusalem, for which reason Jesus wept in Matt 23. Ever since Jerusalem rejected Jesus in Matt 21, each chapter afterwards in Matthew shows parable after parable of either another nation (the church) getting the Kingdom instead of the Jews, or warnings to the church members to likewise not reject Jesus as Jerusalem did at pain of destruction with Jerusalem.

Something about Jerusalem's destruction marked a marriage. We see the same pattern of Matt 22 in Revelation 18-21. Destruction of the city first and then the marriage. It is has something to do with KINGDOM. Christ referred to that coming in destruction as a coming in His Kingdom. Christ has been on the throne of David since His ascension, and His dominion is the entire church age. And He came in His Kingdom (authority) when Jerusalem was wiped out, the former bride of Christ who turned harlot (Ezekiel 16).
So has the marriage occurred?
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  #48  
Old 07-07-2010, 10:18 AM
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
So has the marriage occurred?
Yes. Long ago. I thought I made that plain.
"Something about Jerusalem's destruction marked a marriage."
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Last edited by mfblume; 07-07-2010 at 10:37 AM.
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  #49  
Old 07-07-2010, 11:00 AM
pastor febus pastor febus is offline
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Matthew 22 shows the city being destroyed and the marriage occurring afterwards, when the marriage was meant to occur without destruction of the city. Those initially bidden rejected the invite. It all points back to the rejection of Jesus by Jerusalem in Matt 21. This shows Israel's rejection of Jesus brought on the destruction of Jerusalem, for which reason Jesus wept in Matt 23. Ever since Jerusalem rejected Jesus in Matt 21, each chapter afterwards in Matthew shows parable after parable of either another nation (the church) getting the Kingdom instead of the Jews, or warnings to the church members to likewise not reject Jesus as Jerusalem did at pain of destruction with Jerusalem.

Something about Jerusalem's destruction marked a marriage. We see the same pattern of Matt 22 in Revelation 18-21. Destruction of the city first and then the marriage. It is has something to do with KINGDOM. Christ referred to that coming in destruction as a coming in His Kingdom. Christ has been on the throne of David since His ascension, and His dominion is the entire church age. And He came in His Kingdom (authority) when Jerusalem was wiped out, the former bride of Christ who turned harlot (Ezekiel 16).
Elder your chronicling of these events are spot on. Many fail to see the sequence of these events clearly depicted in scripture. The parables you alluded to are overlooked for their eschatological projections. My latest book deals with these issues in depth. I hope to place an excerpt on this thread concerning the Marriage Supper. It will suprise more than a few with its conclusions.

God bless
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  #50  
Old 07-07-2010, 11:17 AM
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Re: Marriage of New Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Yes. Long ago. I thought I made that plain.
"Something about Jerusalem's destruction marked a marriage."

So the judgment (70 AD) was the consummation? And Pentecost was the earnest..
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