Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongues? - Page 5

KWSS1976 · #41 01-08-2009, 12:52 PM

So if he was saying all these things shall cease, at what time are they to cease?

TRFrance · #42 01-08-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Actually trfrance in 1 corithians 8:13 it does mention something to the effect but the kicker is the perfect is it the bible or jesus because the bible is the perfect word which they did not have back then for people to read..

Yes, I'm familiar with their "that which is perfect" argument, but it doesnt hold water.

Jesus said in Mark 16: "these signs shall follow them that believe...."
The signs were for the believers... and not just "for a while until the Word of God was perfected".

The were for the believers, period. Jesus put no time limitation on it. As long as there are believers, as long as there is a church, those words apply to his believers. Any time-restriction people try to place on those words is simply artificial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

So if he was saying all these things shall cease, at what time are they to cease?

When Jesus comes.

shag · #43 01-08-2009, 01:00 PM

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’(iniquity-kjv)

Is it possible to cast out demons in his name without knowing him? They tried it (using 'the name')in the bible and they got stripped naked, and sent on down the road.

KWSS1976 · #44 01-08-2009, 01:02 PM

So in 1 Corithians Paul was just spinning his wheels telling us that those things were going to cease he really did not know what he was talking about even though Jesus was inspiring him.. Above you stated you think jesus did not put a time frame on it,but yet he gave paul the inspiration to write this. So was paul not inspired to write this by Jesus?

Timmy · #45 01-08-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Yes, I'm familiar with their "that which is perfect" argument, but it doesnt hold water.

Jesus said in Mark 16: "these signs shall follow them that believe...."
The signs were for the believers... and not just "for a while until the Word of God was perfected".

The were for the believers, period. Jesus put no time limitation on it. As long as there are believers, as long as there is a church, those words apply to his believers. Any time-restriction people try to place on those words is simply artificial.

If you accept Mark 16:9-20 as inspired.

Quote:

When Jesus comes.

Will the church cease to exist then?

shag · #46 01-08-2009, 01:05 PM

LOL! Now we're gettin' down to the nitty gritty!

Timmy · #47 01-08-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shag

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’(iniquity-kjv)

Is it possible to cast out demons in his name without knowing him? They tried it (using 'the name')in the bible and they got stripped naked, and sent on down the road.

Seems like those miracle workers will be surprised to find that they are not saved. Think any of those would have voted "100% sure" in this poll.

shag · #48 01-08-2009, 01:15 PM

When that which is perfect, IMO, is that great and notable day of the Lord, his final return.
The church is not discussed as being in part, and it will continue to exist. But the "that which is in part" are the "knowing" and the "prophesying". Then they, not the church, will cease to exist.
At the times of restitution of all things- Acts 3:21

TRFrance · #49 01-08-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

So in 1 Corithians Paul was just spinning his wheels telling us that those things were going to cease he really did not know what he was talking about even though Jesus was inspiring him.. Above you stated you think jesus did not put a time frame on it,but yet he gave paul the inspiration to write this. So was paul not inspired to write this by Jesus?

With all due respect KW, what you're saying is not really making a lot of sense to me.
I dont see any kind of inconsistency or inherent contradiction in anything I said, so...explain to me.
What am I missing here? What point are you trying to make?

(Jesus did not put an artificial 1st century-3rd century time frame on the manifestations of the Holy Ghost, as some Baptists and others try to do.

He said these signs will follow his believers. Period. That is, the church. There are "believers" now in the 21st century just as there were in the 1st century. The New Testament church continues until Jesus comes back for his bride. This harmonizes with what Paul said. There is no contradiction at all. )

Timmy · #50 01-08-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

With all due respect KW, what you're saying is not really making a lot of sense to me.
I dont see any kind of inconsistency or inherent contradiction in anything I said, so...explain to me.
What am I missing here? What point are you trying to make?

(Jesus did not put an artificial 1st century-3rd century time frame on the manifestations of the Holy Ghost, as some Baptists and others try to do.

He said these signs will follow his believers. Period. That is, the church. There are "believers" now in the 21st century just as there were in the 1st century. The New Testament church continues until Jesus comes back for his bride. This harmonizes with what Paul said. There is no contradiction at all. )

I wonder why Paul didn't just make it clear what he meant!