They have no shame

[shag]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Why don't you simply be honest and admit that you do not want to give to the Lord. Be honest and say it instead of making up excuses.

There is nothing to debate about the tithe because it was an issue already settled in the Old Testament.

Nobody debated tithes or offerings in the New Testament for the simple reason that it was already well established.

Stop your dishonestyand simply say "I do not want to give".

Flame, per your comment to Rudy of the tithe was established in the ot and is still in effect, and yet somehow the nt writers failed to record any explaination of it, when opertunity was given...please explain based off of that ot establishment, who all involved in Kingdom ministry in the new covenant(visiting fatherless and widows, nursing home ministries, playing the guitar on the platform, church secretary, house church eldership, bible quizzing quizmasters, free store ministries, and the 100's of other royal priesthood ministries, WHO receives tithes now, who cannot receive tithes now, and use your ot establishment to prove it. And while you're at it, explain to the brother based(using scripture) on it scripture where all those folks having a trade like silversmiths and tent makers paid tithe, and also explain if tithe can now be paid w agriculture instead of money, or it needs to be money.
Since that was left out in Acts, and yet it was all established, please detail it all out for us. Explain to us how it all is suppose to go...and offer scriptural explanation to us simple minded gentiles.

[Originalist]

I see nothing in the Bible even remotely commanding New testament saints to give 10% of their gross income. I did practice for many years simply because I happen to want to give that amount. The last 2 years I "tithed" I tithed 10% of my gross BUSINESS income before any deductions for expenses were taken out. I still experienced financial collapse in December of 2011 and, with the exception of a 6 month period of time, have lived in abject poverty ever since. I have no unconfessed sin in my life. I have never stopped seeking God. I have defrauded no man. I love my neighbor as myself. Yet I left the house a total of 5 times between July 7 and Aug 13 this Summer, just to buy groceries, because I was trying to make a tank of gasoline last.

Not looking for pity. I'm just trying to say that one is not blessed for any magical number of "ten".

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Why don't you simply be honest and admit that you do not want to give to the Lord. Be honest and say it instead of making up excuses.

There is nothing to debate about the tithe because it was an issue already settled in the Old Testament.

Nobody debated tithes or offerings in the New Testament for the simple reason that it was already well established.

Stop your dishonesty and simply say "I do not want to give".

You cannot prove where the tithing as you preach it was EVER established in the Bible. If you are using Mosaic tithing as your proof, then it was abolished with the Levitical system, else there would have been something added by the apostles saying it wasn't. If you are referring to "pre-Law tithing", nothing was ever recorded as being instituted by God. Claiming that tithing was established and thus not necessary for debate is like saying the same thing about the Trinity.

Thus you are going to answer to God for the false doctrine you teach.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Why don't you simply be honest and admit that you do not want to give to the Lord. Be honest and say it instead of making up excuses.

There is nothing to debate about the tithe because it was an issue already settled in the Old Testament.

Nobody debated tithes or offerings in the New Testament for the simple reason that it was already well established.

Stop your dishonesty and simply say "I do not want to give".

Brother, that's a hefty accusation to put against an impoverished brother. Have you not read his own testimony here regarding his health and financial destitution?

Be careful you are not found despising the poor (Psalm 109:16 and James 2:6). God doesn't look kindly on such things.

Maybe you could take up a collection for Rudy and help him out? Maybe this whole message board could do so?

[shazeep]

[Sean]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I offer the whole Old Testament as proof.

Oh, you mean this Old Testament?....

2 Cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Romans 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Oh, you mean this Old Testament?....

2 Cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Romans 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I'm sure it all went over his head.

[Sean]

LOL

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

This was a special collection that Paul was taking in behalf of the poor in Jerusalem, it had nothing to do with the regular church tithe and offering.

If you follow the whole thread of the book of Acts he was taking a special collection to help the church in Jerusalem. This scripture needs to be read in its context.

That's right, it was for the saints in Jerusalem, but it was also concerning giving. It was the perfect setting in which he should also have mentioned the tithe, if tithing was indeed enforced... However, not one time in any of Paul's writings is a 10% dollar amount discussed... whenever giving was mentioned specifically, it was to give as the Lord has prospered you.

Teach giving = YES!
Teach 10% as a general measuring stick for giving = Carefully
Teach 10% Tithing as a heaven or hell issue = NO! No NT scripture to back that up.....

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

That's right, it was for the saints in Jerusalem, but it was also concerning giving. It was the perfect setting in which he should also have mentioned the tithe, if tithing was indeed enforced... However, not one time in any of Paul's writings is a 10% dollar amount discussed... whenever giving was mentioned specifically, it was to give as the Lord has prospered you.

Teach giving = YES!
Teach 10% as a general measuring stick for giving = Carefully
Teach 10% Tithing as a heaven or hell issue = NO! No NT scripture to back that up.....

The New Testament doesn't need to reiterate an established line. When the precept is through the word. There is by your reasoning also, no New Testament scripture that takes away from its practice for us today.

It's the same as 'thou shat not kil'l. We needed, apparently an explanation of the extent of that command. For Jesus said that if you even speak against your brother you have committed murder in your heart.

So likewise teaching on giving in the New Testament also reinforced the heart issue when it comes to giving. We are to give cheerfully.

But neither mean can we now go and kill our brother physically as long as we don't speak about him. Neither does it mean we should stop giving our tithing as long as we make an offering with a cheerful heart.

For just like murder will still send you to hell if it is not repented of, so will robbing God send us to hell if it's not repented of.

Respectfully.