How young, and how do you teach standards???

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Odd you'd mention this. I actually do let my kids decide if they're going to do their homework or not. It *is* their future at stake, not mine. They're watching me go to college and support them and raise them while doing it. I've provided them the principles of a good work ethic and being proud of what they do. I've also provided them the principles of prioritizing and how to determine the true importance of something regardless of what someone else claims. Seems to be working out pretty well for now. Oh, I'm also making sure to include the principles of goal setting and achievement. That'll set them up right proper for anything they decide to do with their lives I figure. Leastwise, it hasn't worked out too badly for me.

Sorry, not me. The way we teach our children a good work ethic is by both example, AND by expecting it from them. My kids don't *decide* whether they will do their homework or practice music...they have time set aside when they get home to do both, and they don't get to play outside or watch tv until their responsibilities are taken care of. Part of my job as a parent is to help them achieve a good future.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child.... In our home, children obey their parents. They don't decide for themselves which rules they will abide by and which ones they won't. Nor do they decide for themselves which homework to do and which homework not to do.

We don't teach them scriptural principles and then let them decide whether they will lie or cheat or steal. No, we demand that they refrain from those kinds of things, and if they do anyway, WE will arrange for the consequences. There is a lot to be said for natural consequences, and my husband and I use that approach to child rearing, but part of that means if there are no immediate consequences, then you create "natural" consequences that will teach them better habits and choices.

Our children aren't allowed to decide for themselves whether they will respect and obey their authorities. They are required to. They aren't allowed to "decide" whether or not they will do their chores. They are required to. Children don't have the capacity to make decisions like that on their own. As they get older, things have to loosen up, but when they're younger, parents have the obligation to be in control of their households.

[nahkoe]

We don't disagree.

There is no rule regarding homework in my home. I'm thinking right now and I'm not sure if my kids know that or not. I guess they do since there is no rule so it hasn't been discussed. Part of the reason is I don't have time to enforce the rule if I set one. Part of it is cuz I think homework is a horrible waste of time (at the elementary, jr high and for the most part highschool level). I'm trying really hard not to give them *that* value so I'm kind of taking a high road on the issue right now.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with everything you said. Thankfully my kids have a good sitter who believes the same and isn't afraid to enforce rules and respect. It's helping to have some consistancy between the sitter and home finally.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Sorry, not me. The way we teach our children a good work ethic is by both example, AND by expecting it from them. My kids don't *decide* whether they will do their homework or practice music...they have time set aside when they get home to do both, and they don't get to play outside or watch tv until their responsibilities are taken care of. Part of my job as a parent is to help them achieve a good future.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child.... In our home, children obey their parents. They don't decide for themselves which rules they will abide by and which ones they won't. Nor do they decide for themselves which homework to do and which homework not to do.

We don't teach them scriptural principles and then let them decide whether they will lie or cheat or steal. No, we demand that they refrain from those kinds of things, and if they do anyway, WE will arrange for the consequences. There is a lot to be said for natural consequences, and my husband and I use that approach to child rearing, but part of that means if there are no immediate consequences, then you create "natural" consequences that will teach them better habits and choices.

Our children aren't allowed to decide for themselves whether they will respect and obey their authorities. They are required to. They aren't allowed to "decide" whether or not they will do their chores. They are required to. Children don't have the capacity to make decisions like that on their own. As they get older, things have to loosen up, but when they're younger, parents have the obligation to be in control of their households.

The only reason I regret not learning to study in high school is that it would have benefited me more in college... I was always able to get my in school without studying so had never learned how... then when I got to college and was suddenly in the deep end of the pool, I couldn't keep up.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

The only reason I regret not learning to study in high school is that it would have benefited me more in college... I was always able to get my in school without studying so had never learned how... then when I got to college and was suddenly in the deep end of the pool, I couldn't keep up.

Yeah. But I did all my homework in school and still had no idea how to study. I've managed to figure out how not to study in college though too. Sort of. Or maybe I've finally learned how to study? Not sure but I'm not doing too badly.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Yeah. But I did all my homework in school and still had no idea how to study. I've managed to figure out how not to study in college though too. Sort of. Or maybe I've finally learned how to study? Not sure but I'm not doing too badly.

I'm having difficulty swallowing your casual approach to homework...LOL!!!! We are a Straight A Family, and if it takes hours of homework to get A's, that's what we aim for. I think pursuing excellence is important, and equally important is being satisfied and pleased with a child's best effort.

Your last two posts about studying and homework make me feel like a cat having her coat rubbed the wrong direction! *shudder*

[Carpenter]

The responses regarding the "train up a child..." concept is very interesting.

What is the difference between conditioning (like pavlovs dogs) and instruction?

You could raise your children to be convinced the world is flat or that there is no God, or worse, to be a liberal democrat and because they love you they will conform...to a point. The baseline foundational teaching will be there, regardless of what they will be in the future.

There are some things we teach our kids that are flat out wrong to expect them to conform to, yet because we believe these principals will be in place when they DO come of age, our means justifies our end, and that is plain wrong to do to our children.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

But kids will challenge what they've been taught at some time in their lives and when they don't want to do what you've been teaching them, as sweet and nice as it sounds, I would hope that they have foundational principles and boundaries to remember and come back to instead of some good ideas.

I don't know if I agree. Like I said earlier, there is a difference between conditioning and teaching. If you teach your kids, then you are letting them decide...to a point. On the other hand, if you control the environment and demand as part of normal function, you are then conditioning.

Kids will not question conditioning because what has become part of their nature has become part of their personality...and THIS concept is why I have such a problem with the standards concept. You cannot so easily question and resist something that has become part of your nature...a brilliant approach to the logic of teaching standards by the Apostolic church.

God demands holiness
Holiness is attained through standards
You cannot be holy with out standards.

[nahkoe]

I apologize.

My life experiences have shaped my opinions. FWIW, I was a straight A student in highschool. *That* never impacted my life one way or the other By the time I went to go to college my grades and ACT score were too old to even be considered in the application process. What I did with myself after I dropped out (oh..I'm sure your poor fur is ruffled now..lol) is what impacted my life and shaped the person I am today.

I take no issue with anyone striving to do their best or be their best. I just don't view grades as in any way being a part of the person earning them. It's just a letter on a piece of paper to me. I do recognize that to many (most?) they're more than that. But even in college I can't get past my feelings. Sure, I'm sort of attempting to tweak my gpa. But that's to cater to someone else's idea that grades are important so I can get scholarships to pay for this education. I know that what I'm learning matters far more to my future than what my gpa is.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm having difficulty swallowing your casual approach to homework...LOL!!!! We are a Straight A Family, and if it takes hours of homework to get A's, that's what we aim for. I think pursuing excellence is important, and equally important is being satisfied and pleased with a child's best effort.

Your last two posts about studying and homework make me feel like a cat having her coat rubbed the wrong direction! *shudder*

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I don't know if I agree. Like I said earlier, there is a difference between conditioning and teaching. If you teach your kids, then you are letting them decide...to a point. On the other hand, if you control the environment and demand as part of normal function, you are then conditioning.

Kids will not question conditioning because what has become part of their nature has become part of their personality...and THIS concept is why I have such a problem with the standards concept. You cannot so easily question and resist something that has become part of your nature...a brilliant approach to the logic of teaching standards by the Apostolic church.

God demands holiness
Holiness is attained through standards
You cannot be holy with out standards.

There is not a direct cause and affect by someone not going by the standards/dress code. Modesty yes-dress code no! I hope you mean't this TIC. One thing is true is God demands Holiness, but it is a lifestyle not a list that you check off to know if you make the grade. IMHO

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

The responses regarding the "train up a child..." concept is very interesting.

What is the difference between conditioning (like pavlovs dogs) and instruction?

You could raise your children to be convinced the world is flat or that there is no God, or worse, to be a liberal democrat and because they love you they will conform...to a point. The baseline foundational teaching will be there, regardless of what they will be in the future.

There are some things we teach our kids that are flat out wrong to expect them to conform to, yet because we believe these principals will be in place when they DO come of age, our means justifies our end, and that is plain wrong to do to our children.

The problem here is that you seem to be assuming that there are parents teaching their children certain things simply because they want them to fit into the church culture sometime in the future. I would say that in many cases, they truly believe what they are teaching is biblical (whether it is or not), and parents do have the right, and even the obligation to teach their children what they believe will save them.

I don't object to Muslim parents teaching their children to be Muslims, no matter how much I disagree with their core values and "principles." I support the rights of parents to teach what they believe is valuable.

My personal integrity as a parent causes me to teach what is necessary and withhold things that might be stumbling blocks.