Baptism for salvation questions

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

These scriptures she will share in no way indicate an invocation by a third party mitgates/activates/ remission of sins... calling upon the name has a deep history in scripture and meaning ... that begins in the old testament.... it connotes a cry for aid [salvation] and its always personal -- not hinging on the officiator of a ceremony but by the believer.

Here are some scriptures to show what I mean:
The Uses of to Call the Name of the LORD

Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Genesis 12:8 And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD.

Genesis 13:4 Unto the place of the altar, which he had made there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the LORD.

Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

Genesis 26:25 And he builded an altar there, and called upon the name of the LORD, and pitched his tent there: and there Isaac's servants digged a well.

1 Kings 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.

2 Kings 5:11 But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Psalm 116:4 Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul.

Psalm 116:13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

Psalm 116:17 I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

Dan, according to Paul, we are to do all things in the name of Jesus. Would it be necessary for Believers to speak a formula in every word and deed?

17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

[SDG]

One reason the believer is to call upon the name of the LORD, given in Psalm 116:13, is to accept His salvation:

I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

All of God’s salvation, His deliverance, is currently available. We stir ourselves up to take hold of God and receive, dechomai (receive before God: be born-again) and lombano (receive into evidence), the cup of God’s wholeness.

How is this done?

Romans 10:9-10,13 tells us:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When we say with our mouth what we believe in our heart concerning the Son of God, our risen Lord and savior Jesus Christ, we will absolutely be saved.

This great cup of His salvation runs over into our lives according to these same principles.


Colossians 2:6 commands
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk (live our lives) ye in him:

The Colossians boldly received into evidence the Lord Christ Jesus. If we walk in believing boldness in this way, we will reign in life as Romans 5:17 says:

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive (lombano) abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ...

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have to leave for a while, but can you define what "the gospel" means? In the strictest most literal sense I would define that to mean simply What Jesus did for us etc etc...however even when that was done in Acts the question was asked "what must I do to be saved"...the answer was believe on Jesus...looking at all the accounts we know that includes repentance too. So in a looser sense I would say the gospel includes not only preaching Jesus but telling them what they need to do as a result of the conviction of their sins and hearing about what Jesus did for us so that we could be forgiven and born again. Where you go from there though is where we get the differences

Yes, the Gospel of Christ's death, burial and resurrection. The resurrection is good news because it proves that the issue of sin has been dealt with in the eyes of God. If God would have still imputed the sins of the world to Christ he would not have risen from the dead. The fact of the resurrection shows that sin has been forgiven. Those in Christ are to be resurrected with Christ because we have been crucified with him, i.e., our sins have been taken to the cross with him. We are to place our faith in his resurrection and reckon ourselves alive unto God as well. We are to place our faith in the sin remitting work of Christ which resulted in his reception of the promise of eternal life and understand this is our ultimate future as well. Our hope rests in the truth of the Gospel.

We are to "repent and believe the Gospel." This is another way of saying we are to have repentance and faith. Repentance is inseparable from faith. The heart returning to faith in God (the heart turning away from dead works and turning toward God in faith) was to return to God via faith in Christ.

The correct response to hearing the good news of the Gospel is to return to God (repent) in faith. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the avenue by which the repentant heart is to return to God.

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

i hate to rain on everybody's parade, but everybody is wrong! what a minister says over a baptismal candidate by invocation is more traditional than biblical. The bible commands the believer to call on the name of the Lord. When Paul was baptized, he was told to go call on the name of the Lord for himself. On the day of pentecost, every believer baptized themselves in the cleansing pools calling on the name of the Lord. Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 15For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
This doctrine about what somebody says over you is from catholicism and the doctrine of substantiation, or the minsiter taking the place of the candidate. Each beliver is commanded to call on the name of the Lord for themselves!!! Anything that is not of faith is sin and if it does not come from the heart of the believer, it has no value. New testament baptism was tied to the mosaic law of cleasing and identification for new belivers.

Keyword: "Heart"

God weighs the spirit if....the heart right with God. Ananais kept the part .... he don't have to keep it and hide. Actually it is belong to him. All he has to do be honest to himself, to God, and others. "Heart is wicked"

[SDG]

In the OT ... to call upon the name of the Lord, the word upon is the particle preposition b or beth. There is no Strong's number that corresponds. Only the use of this Hebrew preposition separates to call the LORD or to call to the LORD from to call upon the LORD or to call upon the name of the LORD.

Almost every use of to call on the name of the LORD involves the construction of an altar and the offering of a sacrifice (Genesis 12:8, 13:4, 21:33--implied, 26:25; 1 Kings 18:24).

All of the Old Testament sacrifices were only as effective as the believing of the one offering them.All of these sacrifices entailed acknowledging God's lamb who would be revealed in the future. To call “upon the name of the LORD” was to formally enter into a covenant by coming into His presence.

Notice that it was between the believer and God ... not the officiator of a ceremony invoking it on someone else.

[Beard]

How is the heart circumcised? How does one call on the name of the Lord? How does one believe with the heart?

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:28,29).

How did the heart of the true believer get circumcised?

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3) Did a professing believer become justified by faith alone, or by faith with works? If the believer just stated that they believed in baptism, but never acted upon it in obedience, did he/she really believe according to the principle of faith?

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:4). How is a professing believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (death, burial, and resurrection) buried into Jesus' death? The question then arises, that if a professing believer in the Gospel is not buried with Jesus by baptism, can he or she walk in newness of life?

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Romans 6:5). What are the consequences to a professing believer who has not been planted together with Jesus in the likeness of his death?

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6,7). How was the body of sin destroyed? by baptism; that is, being buried with Jesus
Where was this body of sin held in the professing believer? The body of sin was held in the professing believer's heart where the weight of sin was carried until it was destroyed by baptism in the likeness of Jesus' death. Again, when was the body of sin destroyed? When a professing believer thought about it and believed it to be truth or when he/she acted upon it and became a believer?

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Colossians 2:11). How was this spiritual circumcision of the heart made in putting of the body of sins? Answer: "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." (Colossians 2:12). The baptism takes place through faith...this is a spiritual operation of God; the spiritual knife that cuts off the body of sins contained in the heart.

The answer of a good conscience toward God is only after putting off the body of sins by baptism into Jesus' death...in the likeness of Jesus' death, being buried with him by baptism, then being raised with him in the newness of life....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
There are seven Feasts of the Lord in the believer's life that are types and shadows of the truth and good...the first three are:
Passover is the death=Repentance
Unleavened Bread is the burial=Baptism
Firstfruits is the resurrection=heart circumcised being raised into newness of life

It is only then that one is a true believer, believing with the heart, not with the intellectual mind; for the heart is circumcised with the body of sins being destroyed....by baptism. Then the believer receives the Holy Ghost with the outward evidence of speaking in tongues...then there is a walk of obedience going from glory to glory until he/she comes unto the measure of the fullness of the stature of Christ; full maturity.

The true believer has the testimony of Jesus and keeps the commandments of God; that is, the testimony of Jesus is the faith...keeping the commandments of God is love. Faith works by love, for it is only by love in doing the will of God that faith flows to the believer in receiving knowledges of good and truth; lest we forget, faith is not of ourselves, it is of God.

[SDG]

Circumcision in the OT never took away sins .... clearly Paul's parallel with it has more in significance than what you have stated in your exegesis, Beard.... nor did it save anyone. Abraham was circumcised 12 years after he entered in a covenant w/ God ... are you suggesting he was unsaved during this interim?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Circumcision in the OT never took away sins .... clearly Paul's parallel with it has more in significance than what you have stated in your exegesis, Beard.... nor did it save anyone. Abraham was circumcised 12 years after he entered in a covenant w/ God ... are you suggesting he was unsaved during this interim?

Way to go Dan, the truth hurts. The natural instinct is to participate in our own salvation. Who can even conceptualize a free salvation? If baptism alone saved you, we could baptize at wal-mart next to the chip & dip. Buy three packs of Doritos and get baptized for free...if it's not a work of faith, it means nothing.
Salvation is a free work of Grace and everybody knows it, but doesn't want to admit it. Should we be baptized? Of course, but salvation alone belongs to God and we are commanded to judge nothing before its time. If baptism is rejected, then thats between the new believer and God. Our responsibility is to love them.

[mfblume]

What if? What if? What if? Let God be Judge.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Believer

Without trying to promote any doctine, I am left with only posting scriptures without being able to make my point. So, I'll allow the Apostle Paul to take my place.

1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,

2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

According to scripture, this is the Gospel that Paul recieved from Jesus Himself, and which he taught.

No mention of repentance....so how do we get saved according to the gospel?

The Gospel, which Paul preached, must have included also salvation by faith, without the works of the law because Paul said
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, "If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"
Gal 2:15 We are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners,
Gal 2:16 yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Yet we don't find that in the verses you posted...they were either left out by Paul or somehow implied or included in the definition of preaching Christ's death, buriel and resurrection

In fact one has to wonder why the connection between believing the gospel and being baptized

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the gospel, the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Also one has to wonder how can one obey the gospel when all it is is telling someone about Jesus being killed, buried and resurrected...

2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?