Stacking the Deck: The Muslim Ban

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You mean, you find it interesting that nobody agreed with you. I tried to point out to you that the end result is inevitable no matter what happens or who does it, irregardless of the Bush-Obama immigration ban that Trump is trying to enforce.

How can you say nobody agreed with me when nobody even addressed my point? lol

And even still, this most recent post from you doesn't illustrate that you see my point.

Can you restate my point back to me so that I can be sure that you caught it?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

How can you say nobody agreed with me when nobody even addressed my point? lol

And even still, this most recent post from you doesn't illustrate that you see my point.

Can you restate my point back to me so that I can be sure that you caught it?

Trump has made a genius political move in re the travel ban. An attack is inevitable. If his ban is overturned, the attack will be blamed on the overturning of the ban, the anti Trumpets will be blamed for lax security, and harsher anti-freedom measures will be enacted.

If the ban stands, the attack will be used to justify the ban, as well as additional harsher anti-freedom measures.

So Trump gets what he wants: an actual police state fascist dictatorship, the dems are blamed as enablers of terror attacks, and we the people descend into tyranny.

That about sum it up?

I don't think you understood MY point, which is that Trump is irrelevant, what he wants is irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if Mickey Mouse was POTUS, the EXACT SAME SCENARIO stands. This isn't some "genius move by Trump", you are 70 years behind.

POTUS is irrelevant, they don't do anything but provide a face for TV for entertainment of the masses. Same is true of ALL federally elected politicians and most high level appointees.

Read your Disraeli.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Trump has made a genius political move in re the travel ban. An attack is inevitable. If his ban is overturned, the attack will be blamed on the overturning of the ban, the anti Trumpets will be blamed for lax security, and harsher anti-freedom measures will be enacted.

If the ban stands, the attack will be used to justify the ban, as well as additional harsher anti-freedom measures.

So Trump gets what he wants: an actual police state fascist dictatorship, the dems are blamed as enablers of terror attacks, and we the people descend into tyranny.

That about sum it up?

I don't think you understood MY point, which is that Trump is irrelevant, what he wants is irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if Mickey Mouse was POTUS, the EXACT SAME SCENARIO stands. This isn't some "genius move by Trump", you are 70 years behind.

POTUS is irrelevant, they don't do anything but provide a face for TV for entertainment of the masses. Same is true of ALL federally elected politicians and most high level appointees.

Read your Disraeli.

So you believe Hillary Clinton would have imposed a similar travel ban?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So you believe Hillary Clinton would have imposed a similar travel ban?

You mean like the ones done by Obama, Bush, Carter, etc etc?

Anyway, I've decided you are a hardcore leftist, as per your previous suggestion it would be okay for someone to commit mass murder in a church, your current support for communist protesters to riot at churches, and your cute little attempt to hide the fact your side actually admits it wants to destroy Christianity. So I've decided to put you on ignore since there simply is no point talking to communist subversives.

Oh, and about that agenda you and your "Christian left" have, whenever you feel froggy, bud, go for the gusto. I just wouldn't try it here in Texas, knowhuttamean, Vern?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You mean like the ones done by Obama, Bush, Carter, etc etc?

Their prohibitions weren't as extensive. We have people who have had no issue under their policies who are having trouble getting back in the United States under Trump's policies.

Anyway, I've decided you are a hardcore leftist, as per your previous suggestion it would be okay for someone to commit mass murder in a church,

I do lean left politically. I make no apologies. However, if you go back and read what I actually said, I never said it was "okay for someone to commit mass murder in a church". Why do you guys on the right always go way out there with brazenly dishonest accusations that are so inflammatory? I explained that I could see where a little guy whose tired of being pushed around by fascists and the pastors who lick their boots might totally lose it. I'm not saying it is okay. I'm not saying that it should be done. I'm just saying that things are getting to the point wherein some people are getting fed up and I can see where they might snap.

your current support for communist protesters to riot at churches, and your cute little attempt to hide the fact your side actually admits it wants to destroy Christianity. So I've decided to put you on ignore since there simply is no point talking to communist subversives.

First, learn what a communist is.

Second, if churches are teaching hate and are preaching fascism, they deserve to have protestors shout them down.

Third, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Episcopals, Lutherans, and Methodists are found throughout the Democratic Party. Those Christians within the Democratic Party are the "religious left". The goal is to keep the Democratic Party from becoming anti-faith. The effort is to also show how social compassion and social justice can be an articulation of one's faith. So, if you don't want to see a Godless political party at war with faith, at least pray for us. It's not easy being a religious person in the Democratic Party.

Oh, and about that agenda you and your "Christian left" have, whenever you feel froggy, bud, go for the gusto. I just wouldn't try it here in Texas, knowhuttamean, Vern?

Not sure what that means. lol

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Second, if churches are teaching hate and are preaching fascism, they deserve to have protestors shout them down.

This is the second time you've made this claim. I want to know the church's name, the pastor's name and the specific comments that you're referring to.

If you can't provide them, then you're just fear mongering and that means you're the one "teaching hate" and "preaching fascism".

[jediwill83]

First off we were never designed to be a nation of just any kind of immigrants. We were primarily British colonials and Benjamin Franklin even expressed misgivings that German immigrants settling in Pennsylvania would not assimilate.

Until the 1960's immigration was primarily from Western European countries that shared similar values and a mistrust of government over reach.

They were people that would not be depending on the government as much so they were not tempted and bribed by what the government could offer them hence they alligned with a more conservative ideology.

Oh and going back to Ellis Island...1/3 of the immigrants decided to go back to their country of origin.

People wanted to be a part of the American way of life because they admired a culture of freedom and independence and they gladly assimilated.

Once changes were made to immigration policies we started taking more immigrants from 3rd world countries who have been proven to support more extensive government programs.

The mistake has been to assume that all of a sudden these third world immigrants will by virtue of touching the soil of a first world country will automatically assimilate and adopt our values when in fact they are doing all they can to transform their new countries into the hellholes they left.

It takes a country with a average IQ of 95 for democracy to flourish and IQ is NOT distributed evenly. It's not racist it's just fact. There is a reason why there are not many Asians recruited for basketball teams.

That being said, let's look at Sweden. They welcomed migrants form the Middle East with open arms in the name of diversity and political correctness and now they have become the rape capital of the world...If you were to look at the ratio of rapes by nationality..Well...Let's just say it ain't the Swedes....Taharrush is a thing. They are having a HUGE wake up call.

Here's another interesting thing about Islam. It is quickly becoming accepted by the native European women.

Could it be that by driving out Christianity in European culture that there is a void that has been left that Islam has conveniently filled?

Christianity is FAR less oppressive of women's rights than Islam but it has become fashionable to put on the burqua.

Europe needs a old fashioned baptism of the HolyGhost and fire!

Men and women of God must stand with a holy boldness and declare that there is ONE GOD and He is God all by himself and there is noone beside Him and His name is Jesus!

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Jito463

This is the second time you've made this claim. I want to know the church's name, the pastor's name and the specific comments that you're referring to.

If you can't provide them, then you're just fear mongering and that means you're the one "teaching hate" and "preaching fascism".

Still waiting.....

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

This is the second time you've made this claim. I want to know the church's name, the pastor's name and the specific comments that you're referring to.

If you can't provide them, then you're just fear mongering and that means you're the one "teaching hate" and "preaching fascism".

I said, "If churches".

However, here's an example. I won't release the name of the preacher, but the church was the Apostolic Lighthouse Church, I believe it was in 2008. He made a comment referring to gays as "faggots". Then he clarified by saying, "And if you look it up, a faggot is nothing but firewood. And that's all they're good for."

-First, as a parent, I don't want my kids using that term.

-Second, how can I elevate the vocabulary of my home if the pastor is using such language?

-Thirdly, in our culture the term has come to be a pejorative no different than the "N" word in reference to a class of people.

- Fourthly, loved one's or family with a gay child or loved one are likely to be highly offended at the way the term was used and this could certainly destroy the witness of the church.

-Fifthly, if a gay person had finally broken down and come to church to see if they might be moved by Jesus, certainly such speech could instantly offend them and cause them to stumble at the offence and be lost.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. I'm not saying that a pastor shouldn't ever condemn sin. I'm talking about the uncouth and hateful manner in which some pastors communicate their message. They are more like shock-jock radio hosts trying to score points with the audience than ministers of Christ who condemn sin, admonish righteousness, and lovingly point to Christ.

Here's another example that is more recent. The church isn't Apostolic. But because of the political climate, I'm not sure if it would be wise to disclose the name of the pastor and the church.

One pastor was talking about Trump and equating him to being a last days king called to restore the wall and bring revival to God's church. He took all this from a passage of the NIV:

Ezekiel 22:27-30 New International Version (NIV)
27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken. 29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the foreigner, denying them justice.

30 “I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one.

This pastor said that the church had better pray for Trump and support him because Trump's wall will be both physical and spiritual and that if any man criticizes or disagrees with Trump he will be cut off in these last days. Because God found no one to build the wall in Israel's day, but has chosen and lifted up a man to build the wall in our day.

This pastor went as far as to say that he prays that Trump send forth "troops" (yes he said "troops") to round up the undocumented. He then went on to say that if they can't be rounded up and put on boats to go home, they should drop them in the sea. Then he went on some rant about how he isn't going to stand here and allow America to be destroyed by invading armies of immigrants and refugees. The man praised Trump like there was no tomorrow.

What I took away from his message was:

- Trump is a prophetic king chosen of God to build a "wall" and damnation follows anyone to criticizes him.
- That he supports Trump using military soldiers to search and sweep civilian homes for undocumented immigrants and refugees.
- That if it is not possible to use boats to send them home, they should be drowned.
- That immigrants and refugees are invaders we are to fear and remove or eliminate.
- That it doesn't matter if Putin (a murderous enemy that undermines our interests) illegally helped Trump.
- That Putin was more righteous than Obama because Putin has crushed the homosexual agenda and doesn't tolerate "snoopy reporters" who "stick their noses where they don't belong".
- That Trump will bring blessing and prosperity and revival to America, and if America doesn't get on board with Trump, there "will be famine" and hardship. And the only way to overcome it will be to dedicate ourselves to re-elect him to give America "one last chance".

After all that, my stomach turned. I had to stand up and leave. It was more like a fascist "Trump cult" meeting with a message that was teaching radical fascism and racism. Even hinting about accepting genocide. And while he was preaching, the congregation was standing, and clapping, and shouting their support and agreement. I honestly felt like something demonic was at work.

I believe Trump is a corrupt buffoon, an embarrassment of a President. I believe his policies are un-American and his vision is fascist. I believe he's Russia's lap dog and will leave millions languishing without the healthcare they need. I realized at that moment that unless you're a right-wing Republican, you most likely will not find a traditional church to attend where you can feel at home and seek the Kingdom of God for you and your family.

One thing that I found really ironic is, the passage he chose to preach from to praise Trump...actually condemns everything Trump and the current Republican Congress is doing:

- Shed blood and kill people for unjust gain (war for profit).
- Work in collusion with a whitewashing clergy that preaches lies and false visions and messages.
- Policies that eliminate regulatory measures to allow for extortion and robbery on Wall Street.
- Policies that are oppressive to the poor and needy with regards to numerous programs and healthcare.
- The mistreatment of foreigners (immigrants, the undocumented, and refugees) and the depriving them of justice.

It's like a big spiritual bait and switch. Moderation and justice for all people is now considered evil.... and oppression and heavy handedness on the poor, needy, and foreigners is praised as being somehow good. Regulations to protect the average Joe's investments is "evil socialism", but deregulation that allows for junk bonds, predatory lending, and broker profit investment schemes that help the broker get rich of a retiree's investments is good.

After reading the story about taking protest and disruption to the churches, I felt like I should have stood up, shouted him down, and rebuked the man by challenging him to preach JESUS instead of Trump.

It's these kinds of pastors and churches that I find disturbing. I believe they need to be shouted down and openly revealed and condemned.

Assuming you heard this yourself, would you agree with such a message?

[Jito463]

Interesting how you initially said that you believed they should be revealed to everyone, yet now you're afraid to mention names?