They have no shame

[KeptByTheWord]

A couple of more thoughts on giving: Giving in the NT is not limited to those who preach the gospel only. Paul teaches many times to give one to another. James mentions it as well. If you are ONLY giving to one man, you are not truly giving.

James 2:2-3 "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?"

Paul spends a whole chapter in II Cor. 9 speaking about giving to the SAINTS.

1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:

and says this:

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

And remember... Paul here is NOT talking about giving to himself, or the ministry, but the SAINTS! Helping each other out...

12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Remember, God blesses giving, no matter how little or much. But Paul certainly taught to give according as the LORD has blessed you, AND to be sure to take care of your brothers and sisters too.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

1 Cor. 16: 1-2
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.



This the only scripture in the NT that speaks of Paul giving an "order" as to how money, and giving should be handled.

Note he does not say "tithe".

What he does say is this: let every one of you lay by him in store as God hath prospered him.

In this way, no one is burdened by a 10% mandatory amount. For a widow and a pauper, 10% is more than they can give because of their poor state. For a wealthy businessman, 10% is a drop in the bucket, and doesn't even touch their pocketbook.

So while 10% may be a good basis or guide to use for giving, it should never be taught as a mandatory amount or a heaven or hell issue. It should be taught... give as the Lord has prospered you. If you give your mite as the widow, that is giving above and beyond... if you give thousands of dollars as a wealthier business person... God will bless that too.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

A couple of more thoughts on giving: Giving in the NT is not limited to those who preach the gospel only. Paul teaches many times to give one to another. James mentions it as well. If you are ONLY giving to one man, you are not truly giving.

James 2:2-3 "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?"

Paul spends a whole chapter in II Cor. 9 speaking about giving to the SAINTS.

1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:

and says this:

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

And remember... Paul here is NOT talking about giving to himself, or the ministry, but the SAINTS! Helping each other out...

12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Remember, God blesses giving, no matter how little or much. But Paul certainly taught to give according as the LORD has blessed you, AND to be sure to take care of your brothers and sisters too.

[Rudy]

I don't why it is taught that everyone paid a tithe of money under the Mosaic Law. It simply did not happen or required. If you were not involved in growing produce or livestock you were not required. You could give offerings.

God made it very clear what was to be tithed. Money was available so don't say they did not have it then. He did not want filthy lucre he wanted food items, period!!

There is NO forever principle of tithing anything. If so what did those who were not involved in food production tithed?

There is NO command to have or build a building to bring a tithe of money to. If you want to tithe your money go ahead. Stop making it required and a salvation issue.

I guarantee the upc,aljc,and the rest will never openly debate this issue.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by houston

I do not believe in tithing. I do believe in giving. It's always a joy to give.

However...

I do not belong to a church. So... What would some of you suggest? Setting up an account where funds are set aside for offering and giving the money to my next church home?
Donating online to TBN?
Something else?

Give alms to the poor.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

1 Cor. 16: 1-2
1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.



This the only scripture in the NT that speaks of Paul giving an "order" as to how money, and giving should be handled.

Note he does not say "tithe".

What he does say is this: let every one of you lay by him in store as God hath prospered him.

In this way, no one is burdened by a 10% mandatory amount. For a widow and a pauper, 10% is more than they can give because of their poor state. For a wealthy businessman, 10% is a drop in the bucket, and doesn't even touch their pocketbook.

So while 10% may be a good basis or guide to use for giving, it should never be taught as a mandatory amount or a heaven or hell issue. It should be taught... give as the Lord has prospered you. If you give your mite as the widow, that is giving above and beyond... if you give thousands of dollars as a wealthier business person... God will bless that too.

This was a special collection that Paul was taking in behalf of the poor in Jerusalem, it had nothing to do with the regular church tithe and offering.

If you follow the whole thread of the book of Acts he was taking a special collection to help the church in Jerusalem. This scripture needs to be read in its context.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Rudy

I don't why it is taught that everyone paid a tithe of money under the Mosaic Law. It simply did not happen or required. If you were not involved in growing produce or livestock you were not required. You could give offerings.

God made it very clear what was to be tithed. Money was available so don't say they did not have it then. He did not want filthy lucre he wanted food items, period!!

There is NO forever principle of tithing anything. If so what did those who were not involved in food production tithed?

There is NO command to have or build a building to bring a tithe of money to. If you want to tithe your money go ahead. Stop making it required and a salvation issue.

I guarantee the upc,aljc,and the rest will never openly debate this issue.

Why don't you simply be honest and admit that you do not want to give to the Lord. Be honest and say it instead of making up excuses.

There is nothing to debate about the tithe because it was an issue already settled in the Old Testament.

Nobody debated tithes or offerings in the New Testament for the simple reason that it was already well established.

Stop your dishonesty and simply say "I do not want to give".

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Why don't you simply be honest and admit that you do not want to give to the Lord. Be honest and say it instead of making up excuses.

There is nothing to debate about the tithe because it was an issue already settled in the Old Testament.

Nobody debated tithes or offerings in the New Testament for the simple reason that it was already well established.

Stop your dishonesty and simply say "I do not want to give".

You offer no proof.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Rudy

You offer no proof.

I offer the whole Old Testament as proof.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I offer the whole Old Testament as proof.

show me.