The son’s eternal kingdom?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Divesting this mortal body (which will be replaced with an immortal body) is not the same as being "divested of humanity". Humanity means human nature, the sum total of qualities that make a human a human and not, say, a cat, or an amoeba, or a for tree, or an angel, or a piece of granite. Humans do not cease being humans at the resurrection, they simply cease being mortal. Mortality is not a necessary part of the definition of " human" anymore than "poor" or "dumb" is. Mortality is a condition humans find themselves in at present, but that will be changed (for the redeemed, anyway).

Christ put off this tabernacle of dust, but still remained human.

My bible said Christ is unchanged forever. What does your bible say?

Amen. Christ is still HUMAN but glorified and immortal. He is what Adam was meant to be forever. Hence, He is last man Adam. The firstborn of a new creation race of immortal humans.

All we are aware of is mortal fallen humanity. But THE MAN Christ Jesus is still the MAN and is still intercessor and High Priest! THE MAN! Anthropos. Human being.

[mfblume]

Man was not meant to physically die. Only as a result of sin and judgment did God say to Adam he was dust and would return to dust. No note of that before the fall.

Gen 3:19 KJV In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Physical death was part of the curse.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

(1) Amen. Christ is still HUMAN but glorified and immortal. He is what Adam was meant to be forever. Hence, He is last man Adam. The firstborn of a new creation race of immortal humans.
(2) All we are aware of is mortal fallen humanity. But THE MAN Christ Jesus is still the MAN and is still intercessor and High Priest! THE MAN! Anthropos. Human being.
(3) Man was not meant to physically die. Only as a result of sin and judgment did God say to Adam he was dust and would return to dust. No note of that before the fall.
(4) Gen 3:19 KJV In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
(5) Physical death was part of the curse.

(1) Jesus is still a “man” because there are still men needing salvation and they (we)
still need an intercessor. We are humans because of our (a) bodies of dust, and (b) our
mortality! In our conversion, as in our resurrection, we are “Sons of God”.

(2) That is NOT all we should be aware of: but we should also be aware of the END
of the work of the Lord.

(3) If man was not meant to die physically, God would have left us in our spiritual bodies.
God KNEW man would sin. We should not question God’s omniscience! If God had not known
of the “fall”, He would not have established grace on the first day of creation. “That was
the true light that lights every man that enters into the world."

(4) This was AFTER the curse, and it is the FLESH that returns to the dust of the ground…or
what was taken (formed) from the dust? So what was the curse? That we should remain
in the bodies of dust, which are mortal!

(5) Yes, it was the consequence of the OPTION that man chose. However, God had let His will
be known by placing the Tree of Life in the midst of the garden!

[mfblume]

I disagree, brother. God meant man to be immortal in physical bodies to manifest His glory from the non-physical realm into the physical realm. Mortality is no synonymous with humanity, only with fallen humanity. The physical bodies we have is what God must manifest through in order to influence the physical universe. We lost spiritual bodies when Adam sinned. Christ resurrected in a spiritual body and that is what we shall have when our bodies are changed in a moment at His resurrection.

Our souls and spirits only go to heaven because we are without bodies. But that is not our eternal home. We will return in immortal bodies to the earth and rule forevermore.

We were created spirit, soul and body. And we are incomplete without all three. We already are sons of God. We already have eternal life, it's just that our bodies need to be changed as our spirits were, and souls are being changed.

[Esaias]

We are not humans "because of our bodies and mortality".

This is the SOURCE of your error that has led to other errors.

Christ is the SAME, FOREVER. The Bible says so. There is not one verse which says Christ will cease to be human. Additionally, you are saying human nature = mortal body, but you contradict yourself when you say Christ is STILL CURRENTLY HUMAN because he ALREADY PUT OFF THE MORTAL BODY in Resurrection.

So if your premise is correct, Jesus ceased to be human when he was resurrected.

I believe no doctrine unless it is stated as doctrine in the Bible, or is a necessary inference from what is stated. And this doctrine that Christ will cease to be human is neither.

[shazeep]

i don't think it matters, really, but good point.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I disagree, brother.
(1) God meant man to be immortal in physical bodies to manifest His glory from the non-physical realm into the physical realm. Mortality is no synonymous with humanity, only with fallen humanity.
(2) The physical bodies we have is what God must manifest through in order to influence the physical universe.
(3) We lost spiritual bodies when Adam sinned. Christ resurrected in a spiritual body and that is what we shall have when our bodies are changed in a moment at His resurrection.
(4) Our souls and spirits only go to heaven because we are without bodies. But that is not our eternal home.
(5) We will return in immortal bodies to the earth and rule forevermore.

(6)We were created spirit, soul and body. And we are incomplete without all three.
(7)We already are sons of God. We already have eternal life, it's just that our bodies need to be changed as our spirits were, and souls are being changed.

(1 Actually, man IS immortal; but the body formed from dust is NOT;

(2) God CHOSE to manifest thru the body of Jesus Christ, because man had bodies of dust;

(3) NO: we are still "Spirit-men": we lost our lordship;

(4) Yes. our "bodies" go back to the dust; however, the "lost"spirits await their punishment;

(5) Yes, the saved will: in ANOTHER tabernacle;

(6) We were created spirits (Gen 1:26), and then formed from dust, (Gen. 2"7) w/living souls;

(7) Yes. "...as many as should be saved..." are sons and daughters: and are transforming
their minds (souls) while awaiting the NEW TABERNACLE.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

(1) We are not humans "because of our bodies and mortality".
(2) This is the SOURCE of your error that has led to other errors.
3) Christ is the SAME, FOREVER. The Bible says so. There is not one verse which says Christ will cease to be human.
(4) Additionally, you are saying human nature = mortal body, but you contradict yourself when you say Christ is STILL CURRENTLY HUMAN because he ALREADY PUT OFF THE MORTAL BODY in Resurrection.
(5) So if your premise is correct, Jesus ceased to be human when he was resurrected.
(6) I believe no doctrine unless it is stated as doctrine in the Bible, or is a necessary inference from what is stated. And this doctrine that Christ will cease to be human is neither.

(1) I stand corrected. Man is the "spirit-being" created in God's "...image and likeness...".

(2) Please enumerate my "other errors": I am willing to learn or be corrected;

(3) Christ, the WORD "...that became flesh...", is forever the same;

(4) I agreed with the Brother who said Jesus was still human: but believe that man developed
his "human nature" when he sinned;

(5) Jesus has NOT stopped being human...; He is still our intercessor AND the "...Lamb of God...";

(6) Good for you! Now, do you believe that we will enter "heaven" with these current bodies
and rule THIS current world for eternity? Will we not be dressed upon with a new tabernacle?
"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect
tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
"Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in
remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus
Christ hath shewed me.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Are we not being built upon?

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son
in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh..."

Because of sin, Jesus was manifest in the flesh to condemn sin. Now if we are to be dressed
upon with a NEW TABERNACLE, are you saying the Lord will insist on keeping the old tabernacle:
seeing there will be no more need for it?

[Esaias]

Brother, I find your use of terms (like human nature) is different than mine. We will put off mortality and put on immortality (which BTW proves man is NOT immortal at this time). We will be changed in resurrection to be like Jesus in HIS resurrected state.

The other errors pertain to what I see as an erroneous definition of human nature, but I don't want to quibble over mere terms that aren't found in scripture.

I believe Jesus will have the body he has now, forever. As we will retain our resurrected bodies, forever.

[Esaias]

Also, man was created from dust, and BECAME a "living soul". Man was NOT created as an immortal spirit being who then later on entered a physical body. The Bible is clear, God said " FOR DUST THOU ART" not " for dust is your body".

No human is immortal at this time except Jesus Christ. The lost will be destroyed in hell fire, they will not live forever in ANY state or condition.