Without Holiness . . . - Page 4

Aquila · #31 08-26-2014, 08:26 AM

I began thinking about "holiness" and what it means to be "holy". Essentially, our traditions teach us that "holiness" is outward behavior that reflects certain standards. But holiness is an experience that has more of an effect on one's being than something that spurs religious behaviors. However, this understanding would bring a new meaning to "holiness". Holiness would mean "Christlikeness". Becoming "holy" (or sanctified) would therefore be to becoming "Christified". To become... like Jesus. In the quest for holiness there is the quest for union with the divine through Christ Jesus. He being the true vine... and we discovering and experiencing the reality of being a branch. The branch and the vine being a single organism... He being the Father, the Father in Him, and He in us. Grace allows us to "come as we are" to this union of Spirit wherein we become one spirit with the Lord (I Corinthians 6:17). We become "holy" by becoming more and more like Him... and we become more and more like Him as we manifest divine love towards our neighbors... even our enemies. In this, we demonstrate our love for God not by observing various "standards"... but by loving others with a divine love. Therefore we become more "holy" as we become more forgiving, patient, kind, sacrificing, gentle, and caring... for in doing this... we become more and more like Him.

It really opens up the mystery of incarnation... and the hope of glory... which is Christ in us.

This concept truly opens us up to "experiencing" God. And through that experience... we realize our union of Spirit. The Bible says...

1 Corinthians 6:17 (ESV)
17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

And while that is an awesome and majestic concept to be truly pondered and meditated upon, the implication is equally as powerful. If we are one spirit with God through the Spirit... we are also one spirit with one another. Being separate from one another (including God) is an illusion we buy into by failing to embrace and realize this abiding union through faith. We are one spirit with one another... because we are one spirit with the Lord through the Spirit.

Therefore, love should flow freely between those who have experienced being "born of the Spirit" in spite of all differences of preference, personal conviction, and even various theological positions. To separate from one another is to divide the body. To draw a distinction that is irreparable is to do violence to Christ. To hate one another is not only to hate Him who abides in us... but it is to hate ourselves.

The reverse therefore becomes true... to love one another, to forgive one another, to be patient and kind to one another, to accept one another with all our faults and failures... is to intrinsically... accept, love, and forgive ourselves.

This gives greater understanding to the verse that reads...

John 17:22 (KJV)
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

We are one in Him. We partake in the very glory revealed in the truth of the mighty "God in Christ Jesus" (Oneness). We partake in the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), He has shared that glory. But He hasn't shared that glory with us as though He is sharing it with another. No, He has chosen to abide in us, making us a part of Himself, thereby sharing that glory with us as we become living extensions of Himself. Again, we being branches of the vine.

Now are we the sons of God.

In sports they say... "See the ball... be the ball." We've lost sight of what we must do in this arena. We must, "See Jesus... be Jesus."

The only thing more worldly that Hollywood is... religion and outward legalistic standards. I've also discovered that the true measure of Christian "spirituality" isn't its complexity... but rather it is its simplicity.

How simple is the Christian's call?

Love God. Love others.

You can't get more simple than that.

Another text comes to mind...

Acts 5:14-16 (KJV)
14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

The implication is that these multitudes were healed by the Apostle's shadows. But if what I'm seeing is true... it wasn't the power or virtue of the Apostles. It was the power of Christ in them... their very shadows had nail scared hands.

Imagine walking in such spiritual union with the Holy that He begins to manifest in and through you.... by grace. Just as you are. A broken vessel with all the love and power of God Himself pouring through you.

We think we have to "be more" than what we are. The truth is... grace allows us to rest and be "authentic"... and still experience this blessed state wherein we freely partake of the divine nature... like children dancing and playing in the rain.

The transformation isn't one of behavior... but of being. In all one's imperfections and humanity... one can sense Jesus in that person's life. This transforms one's self and others around them.

He is our very "life"...

Colossians 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Here's something else that this has put on my heart...

If we choose to live by a list of do's and don'ts as dictated by a denomination, organization, church, or pastor... we become conformed into their image... not the image of Christ. It isn't enough to be a "good Pentecostal" or a "good Baptist"... because when we stand before Him we will discover that... He isn't Pentecostal nor Baptist. We become living "idols"... instead of becoming conformed into the image of Jesus Himself.

Jesus said...

John 15:1-5 (KJV)
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

We cannot do anything without this abiding union. Merely changing behavior isn't enough. Abiding is necessary. Abiding as a branch abides in oneness with the vine. This implies that through abiding on the vine, we loose our "self"... we lose our "identity" and become living extensions of Him.

Changing behavior will do nothing. Loosing our very identity in Him... experiencing the union He calls us to... this transforms our very being and identity.

I'm reminded of a story wherein a man sought out and rather notorious monk. When he arrived at the monk's residence he knocked on the door. A voice on the other side of the door answered...

"Who is it that you seek?"

The man explained that he sought this monk. To this the voice said,

"I regret to inform you that he has died."

Shocked, the man said,

"Who lives here now?"

The monk's voice spoke softly form the other side of the door...

"Only Christ."

To realize this is to take "Oneness" from being merely a Christological doctrine and moves it into the realm of being the foundation of our soteriology. Oneness. It's about so much MORE than what our doctrinal manuals tell us. It's the foundation of everything. Experiencing Him who is to be revealed as the all... in all.

Understanding this makes watching the leaves dance with the wind an encounter with the sacred. The mundane and common becomes holy. I watched the sun rise today... and was overcome with awe and emotion unlike anything I've ever experienced.

I'm like a drop of wine... having fallen in the ocean. I am... undone.

My sin... my shame... my weakness... my humanity... my failures... I now realize WHY it was all atoned for. Why He chose to be my propitiation. He, who knew no sin, became sin... that I, knowing only sin, might become the very righteousness of God.

He became me... that I might become Him... through union of spirit. As a branch is one with the Vine.

And I don't deserve it. In fact... something in me recoils out of a sense of feeling unworthy.

But in becoming a man... God elevated all that we are into Himself thereby sanctifying all that a man is... that He might pour out all that He is... into us... freely and without measure.

I'm rambling now. It just gets to be more than I can grasp. To really get a glimpse of the mystery and meaning of it all...

Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Christ... in me... Christ in you... Christ in us.

When this is realized... the call of the Gospel ceases to be...

"Come to me, live by this list, and go to Heaven."

It becomes...

"Come and be one with Me... and experience Me in you. I have done this so that where ever I AM... there you might be also. You in me... and I in you. Live as I AM...in you."

We might cry out... and He answers...

"But God, I am imperfect."

"I AM your perfection."

"But I am unholy."

"I AM your holiness."

"But I am frail and weak."

"I AM your strength."

"But I am nothing."

"I AM your everything. I AM the all in all. The I AM that I AM. I AM what I will be. I AM. And I have chosen you that my glory might be revealed in you... for in you... I AM."

And this reality is no better revealed than in our love for one another... and our love for our neighbors... our love for even our enemies. For He is... love.

Through love... we fulfill the Law. Because love does no harm to the object of its affection.

Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

There can be no law... only love. Where there is only love... there is only God.

Aquila · #32 08-26-2014, 08:29 AM

There is no human level of "holiness" that can please an infinitely holy God. All that can please an infinitely holy God is... partaking in His holiness.

Aquila · #33 08-26-2014, 08:34 AM

Christianity is an experience with God and the Christian life is an experience in God.

If one isn't conformed into the very image of Jesus Himself through the abiding presence of the Spirit... no list of rules contrived by man will suffice. If I lived by your list of rules... I'd be made in your image. If I lived by another's list of rules... I'd be conformed into their image. If I lived by any organization's list of rules... I'd be conformed into the image of that organization. I'd become a living idol.

One must be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit, through our spiritual union with Him who is the true vine.

KeptByTheWord · #34 08-26-2014, 10:27 AM

Good words Aquila. Essentially, true holiness is becoming more and more like Christ.

Charnock · #35 08-26-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonder

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

First things first.

KeptByTheWord · #36 08-26-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

First things first.

Yes!

Godsdrummer · #37 08-27-2014, 09:51 AM

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

I was raised with this passage, it was the starting point of every message preached on holiness.
As if holiness was something we could achieve on our own. It was said, "we must become holy in order to please God." Then we would spring board off this statement to preach church standards of dress. Saying this was holiness.

Standards of dress is not holiness. As Aquila so well put forth, holiness is our state of being when we are in Christ. We do not achieve holiness, we take on his holiness.

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

How are we partakers of his holiness? By faith, Christ was holy for us. We rest in his holiness, not our own efforts.

True holiness is found in the spirit of God.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
True holiness is everything that is NOT fulfilling the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If these fruits are not manifest in your life, you are not holy. Dress codes do not define holiness.

Paul defines what is not holy, by listing the works of the flesh.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

Too many times I have known people that were outwardly dressed, within their code of holiness, only to revile that they had several of the manifestations of the works of the flesh. they were gossips, had hatred and strife in their life, would easily fall into fornication, or adultery.

Nowhere do we find any new testament writer speaking of holiness as defined by the clothes one wears.
Oh I know we quote 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3, in our attempt to say clothes are part of holiness. The problem is we are miss reading these two passages.
These two passages would be better read as, "don't make holiness the putting on of clothes, but rather the inner man of the heart." Clothes line preachers do the exact opposite of what Peter and Paul address in these two verses. They want to make holiness the putting on of certain clothes rather then the inner man of the heart.
Friends it is right there in black and white if you will only read the passage.
Holiness is not the putting on of clothes, holiness is not braiding your hair a certain way. Holiness is not decking yourself out in a certain way, or not decking yourself out.
Holiness is the inner man of the heart, as Sarah of old times.
So I only say, if we are going to talk about holiness, lets put things in the right perspective, not a Pharisaical painting of the outside of the tomb.

KeptByTheWord · #38 08-27-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

I was raised with this passage, it was the starting point of every message preached on holiness.
As if holiness was something we could achieve on our own. It was said, "we must become holy in order to please God." Then we would spring board off this statement to preach church standards of dress. Saying this was holiness.

Standards of dress is not holiness. As Aquila so well put forth, holiness is our state of being when we are in Christ. We do not achieve holiness, we take on his holiness.

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

How are we partakers of his holiness? By faith, Christ was holy for us. We rest in his holiness, not our own efforts.

True holiness is found in the spirit of God.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
True holiness is everything that is NOT fulfilling the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If these fruits are not manifest in your life, you are not holy. Dress codes do not define holiness.

Paul defines what is not holy, by listing the works of the flesh.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

Too many times I have known people that were outwardly dressed, within their code of holiness, only to revile that they had several of the manifestations of the works of the flesh. they were gossips, had hatred and strife in their life, would easily fall into fornication, or adultery.

Nowhere do we find any new testament writer speaking of holiness as defined by the clothes one wears.
Oh I know we quote 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3, in our attempt to say clothes are part of holiness. The problem is we are miss reading these two passages.
These two passages would be better read as, "don't make holiness the putting on of clothes, but rather the inner man of the heart." Clothes line preachers do the exact opposite of what Peter and Paul address in these two verses. They want to make holiness the putting on of certain clothes rather then the inner man of the heart.
Friends it is right there in black and white if you will only read the passage.
Holiness is not the putting on of clothes, holiness is not braiding your hair a certain way. Holiness is not decking yourself out in a certain way, or not decking yourself out.
Holiness is the inner man of the heart, as Sarah of old times.
So I only say, if we are going to talk about holiness, lets put things in the right perspective, not a Pharisaical painting of the outside of the tomb.

Great thoughts, Godsdrummer!

The topic of holiness always gravitates to outward codes of conduct because those things are easier to demand obedience. as the Pharisees were perfect examples of. When Jesus dealt with them about issues of the heart, they slunk away.

Holiness really should be understood as putting on Christ, and not the putting on of apparel....