Submit Yourselves!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

In my opinion

when a husband loves his wife like Christ loves the church

and

when a husband loves, pampers, pets, watches out for, babies, indulges, respects, considers, makes allowances for, and cares for his wife as much as he does for him self then he can expect her to submit.

flip side, when a wife submits, honors and reverence her husband then she can expect him to love her as Christ loved the church.

I don't think a mates failure relieves one of their duty to be the mate they should be.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

This particular act of obedience has been one of the most abusive traits towards women since the beginning of time.

If you step back in time, you will find that women were expected to obey their husbands in "Everything", leaving the door wide open for a man to manipulate and abuse a woman mentally, and physically, leaving her at the absolute mercy of a dominate male.

Truthseeker, I sense a very strange and unnerving tone in your comments.

In this Country, it was only a few years ago when women had virtually no rights because of this fundamentalist approach to the feminine gender. Without a "Voice", women lived in fear because they had no real ability to take care of themselves.

Other Countries still expect this demand that comes from ancient Tradition, and the results are beyond tragic. I've also watched men in the Church use this leverage from Scripture to strong arm and manipulate their wives. Remember, we are using a Law towards women which support Cultures like the one in this Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ovYP7xMCo

regardless of it being abused and misused it doesn't change what is expected by both husband and wife.

BTW Get your senses checked. They need a tune up.

[Truthseeker]

Sometimes husbands are trying to make their wives submit which is really Gods work. You can't make someone submit to you. God commands husbands "love your wives" not love your submissive wives. Wives are told to submit not try to make their husband love her more, she can't make that happened. Each person must work on what Gods command is for them. If my wife is unsubmissive or lack reverence/respect it doesn't relieve me of the command to love my wife as Christ loves the church. The church isn't always submissive but he still loves it.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

flip side, when a wife submits, honors and reverence her husband then she can expect him to love her as Christ loved the church.

I don't think a mates failure relieves one of their duty to be the mate they should be.

She may expect him to love her if she's submissive, but it doesn't always happen. Yet if she's submissive she may win him. However, there are things that a woman shouldn't submit to--can't submit to and still be obedient to God. Rape, beatings, pornographic influences or actions, deliberate starvation, threats of death or physical harm to herself or her kids, and so forth. You might be surprised what women are taught to "submit" to. We can't smoke or drink, because too much of that might be harmful. But if a man beats our head into a wall, we should submit?

I don't think you would truly believe that submission should mean submission to physical or mental harm. However, women are sometimes told that is submission, and it bears repeating: No woman is "unsubmissive" for refusing to allow a man to physically, mentally, spiritually or emotionally inflict intentional harm to her or her kids.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by missourimary

She may expect him to love her if she's submissive, but it doesn't always happen. Yet if she's submissive she may win him. However, there are things that a woman shouldn't submit to--can't submit to and still be obedient to God. Rape, beatings, pornographic influences or actions, deliberate starvation, threats of death or physical harm to herself or her kids, and so forth. You might be surprised what women are taught to "submit" to. We can't smoke or drink, because too much of that might be harmful. But if a man beats our head into a wall, we should submit?

I don't think you would truly believe that submission should mean submission to physical or mental harm. However, women are sometimes told that is submission, and it bears repeating: No woman is "unsubmissive" for refusing to allow a man to physically, mentally, spiritually or emotionally inflict intentional harm to her or her kids.

Right, I wouldn't expect a women to keep getting her head smashed, of course not.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

regardless of it being abused and misused it doesn't change what is expected by both husband and wife.

BTW Get your senses checked. They need a tune up.

Yes it does change things. If we can learn from Cultural failure in regards to dogmatic Religious adherence, then we need to change.

Jesus himself stepped in to stop this atrocity, even though the Bible supported the stoning of a woman caught in the act of Adultery.

Do you believe a woman should be able to get an education, work outside of the home, hold political offices, vote, or be in a position of authority?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression you are young and inexperienced.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Yes it does change things. If we can learn from Cultural failure in regards to dogmatic Religious adherence, then we need to change.

Jesus himself stepped in to stop this atrocity, even though the Bible supported the stoning of a woman caught in the act of Adultery.

Do you believe a woman should be able to get an education, work outside of the home, hold political offices, vote, or be in a position of authority?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression you are young and inexperienced.

Paul was wasn't teaching cultural but what was expected by God. Arew you saying he was wrong?

I am strictly refering to confines of marriage not politics, work place etc.....
My mananger is female, Haven't had a male supervisor for decades.

I think we do best by disccussing scripture on a subkect like verses little personal shots. If I'm 13 years old it still would change what the bible says.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I think it to be needful to do a study of Honor and it's reward...A minister/pastor cannot minister in the context of dishonor, Jesus couldn't neither can we.

PK,
Thanks for clarifying. I think I understand now that you are saying certain ministers in Christ cannot be of service “in the context of dishonor” because they are not grasping (or are not practicing) the act of submission/humility which Christ himself put on. Your reference to 1 Peter 2 is an excellent one regarding the conduct and attitude of the Christian believer.

Verse 17: We should do honor (deal honorably, respect) unto all men, the brotherhood, and to those in government. Verses 18-22: We should take on the attitude and mind of Christ and not to repay evil for evil. But because Christ suffered for us who were guilty and undeserved, how much more should we be examples of humility? For this pleases God.

Good thoughts.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Paul was wasn't teaching cultural but what was expected by God. Arew you saying he was wrong?

I am strictly refering to confines of marriage not politics, work place etc.....
My mananger is female, Haven't had a male supervisor for decades.

I think we do best by disccussing scripture on a subkect like verses little personal shots. If I'm 13 years old it still would change what the bible says.

First, whether you or I like it, Culture plays an important role in Faith. Our Church model today isn't even close to the original mode of gathering Christians. Our music, dress, what we eat, how we speak, these combine to make us completely different.

Even Paul recognized the differences of Nations and Cultures, telling us not to offend others who might have differing views or convictions. When in Rome, be as the Romans. Paul said, "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

Let's not forget, Paul went from one extreme to the other. One day he is condemning Christians to death, even supporting the barbaric act of Stephens murder, the next day he is preaching against such Religious acts via his conversion (change).

Women leaving the home to do what your supervisor is doing was not accepted years ago, as Religion(s) taught that the Woman's place was in home with the children. Also, the other changes I mentioned in our Culture regarding Women were not an accepted thing by the Church years ago.

You said, "Not to many fit in the class... submit to your husband in everything."

Everything? So, I'm curious what you mean by this. Everything is a loose cannon.

No offense, but age has everything to do with experience. If you are young and inexperienced, you draw from a shallow well where trial and error is minimal.

[Truthseeker]

This what Paul said:

Eph 5:22-24

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
KJV

Eph 5:22-23

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
KJV

verse 23 tells why a wife must submit to the husband and it has nothing to to do with culture.

True, age and experience brings wisdom to a discussion, but never changes Gods standard. Not an old foggy but been married 15 years.

Got to go to work, check in later.