Command or commandments?

[Jack Shephard]

Rich- I was answering via my phone and some of the keys don't work too well. I meant the Bible is NOT contradictory. Sorry. I guess I don't see the irony in me being on the Apostolic Friends Forum. I am both Apostolic and a friend. Albeit I am not of the same mold as you are, but nevertheless I am as Apostolic as you. There were many things you listed are not commandments. Us Pentecostals like to take teachings and claim them to be commandments because it is easier to say it is a commandment than to allow grace to work. Us humans and especially us Pentecostals are great at not allowing grace to work. Sorry it took me a while to answer back. I trust you will try to rip apart what I just wrote, but the fact is that grace trumps suggestions any day of the week.

[Jack Shephard]

Rich- I was answering via my phone and some of the keys don't work too well. I meant the Bible is NOT contradictory. Sorry. I guess I don't see the irony in me being on the Apostolic Friends Forum. I am both Apostolic and a friend. Albeit I am not of the same mold as you are, but nevertheless I am as Apostolic as you. There were many things you listed are not commandments. Us Pentecostals like to take teachings and claim them to be commandments because it is easier to say it is a commandment than to allow grace to work. Us humans and especially us Pentecostals are great at not allowing grace to work. Sorry it took me a while to answer back. I trust you will try to rip apart what I just wrote, but the fact is that grace trumps suggestions any day of the week. Also the use of 'in the mouths of two or three' was WAY out of context.

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Rich- I was answering via my phone and some of the keys don't work too well. I meant the Bible is NOT contradictory. Sorry.
I guess I don't see the irony in me being on the Apostolic Friends Forum. I am both Apostolic and a friend. Albeit I am not of the same mold as you are, but nevertheless I am as Apostolic as you. There were many things you listed are not commandments. Us Pentecostals like to take teachings and claim them to be commandments because it is easier to say it is a commandment than to allow grace to work. Us humans and especially us Pentecostals are great at not allowing grace to work. Sorry it took me a while to answer back. I trust you will try to rip apart what I just wrote, but the fact is that grace trumps suggestions any day of the week. Also the use of 'in the mouths of two or three' was WAY out of context.

You guys that dont like scriptures that contradict your mindset always play the "out of context card." I try to live by the Bible and do my best to obey what is written therein rather than deceive myself thinking I will be saved while I hear the word but decline to do it. (James 1:23)

You still said "Look it doesn't matter how much any disects any verse because there is always another verse that seems to contradict it."
Not really. It still pays to rightly devide the Word. If you still dont want to, I can understand why.

You mentioned that "grace (always) trumps suggestions." I cringe to think what you may privatly interprit as "suggestions." Holliness? Repentance? Flee fornication? No matter; without holiness no man shall see the Lord. If someone is foolish enough to make that optional, just so the flesh isnt too uncomfortable, they need a psych eval. But grace will make up the differance if we choose to willingly disreguard scriptures? Is this also what you believe? If so, you are farther gone that I thought. I truly hope not. No more sacrifice for sin....open shame...continue in sin that grace may abound?God forbid...these are just a few of the scriptures that come to mind.

STILL:ALL SCRIPTURE IS...PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE...REPROOF...INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. If you choose to not profit from it, fine. If you choose not to be isntructed by it, that too is your decision. You are not the first or last to exemplify these (out of context, no doubt) scriptures that were also given by inspiration of God: Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Pro 5:12 ...How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof; Pro 15:10 [10] Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.Isa 28:9 [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?...

Continue believing, if you do, that not all scripture holds the same weight and that the work of grace negates the importance of obediance, but you didnt learn that from His Word. (Eph 4:20: But ye have not so learned Christ) <-- a little out of context. There, I gave ya one.

Take care. I have enjoyed the conversation.

ps: Friend, please don't forget or ignore what God said..."all scripture."

[/conversation]

[acerrak]

Whose Holiness? yours? No were not Holy, None is Holy But the Lord. The only thing that makes us Holy is God's Spirit. You sound like your trying to depend on yourself for some kinda of Good work, but are rightousness is like filthy rags.

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by acerrak

Whose Holiness? yours? No were not Holy, None is Holy But the Lord. The only thing that makes us Holy is God's Spirit. You sound like your trying to depend on yourself for some kinda of Good work, but are rightousness is like filthy rags.

You just took one word out of alllll that? no, not my holiness. I did not say that in any way. Nice failed attempt. I know that "are" righeousness is as filty rags. Maybe you should stay in the crib next time rather than trying to accuse people of foolishness.

Wow.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

You just took one word out of alllll that? no, not my holiness. I did not say that in any way. Nice failed attempt. I know that "are" righeousness is as filty rags. Maybe you should stay in the crib next time rather than trying to accuse people of foolishness.

Wow.

im just being honest, cause of your attitude, its really hard for me to take you serious. the emotcons and your remarks are childish.

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

I cringe to think what you may privatly interprit as "suggestions." Holliness? Repentance? Flee fornication? No matter; without holiness no man shall see the Lord. If someone is foolish enough to make that optional, just so the flesh isnt too uncomfortable, they need a psych eval. But grace will make up the differance if we choose to willingly disreguard scriptures? Is this also what you believe? If so, you are farther gone that I thought. I truly hope not. No more sacrifice for sin....open shame...continue in sin that grace may abound?God forbid...these are just a few of the scriptures that come to mind.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

and yes i pinpointed that.

[Aquila]

I found something along these lines the other day. A pastor I know preached from the following passage:

Matthew 7:24-27
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The preacher began to preach against television, preach the dress code, all the "Pentecostal Traditions", telling us, "We are not to just hear what Jesus commands, but we are to do them!"

I walked away feeling spiritually starved and began to read the passage in context. This is the closing of Christ's "Sermon on the Mount". Christ had just given what might be called the most comprehensive body of Christian teaching recorded in the Gospels. All the subjects addressed are found beginning in chapter 5 and continuing through chapter 7. The subjects include:

The Beatitudes
Being Salt and Light
The Fulfillment of the Law
Murder and Hatred
Adultery and Lust
Divorce and Remarriage
Oaths
An Eye for an Eye
Love for Enemies
Giving to the Needy
Prayer
Fasting
Treasures in Heaven
Do Not Worry
Judging Others
Asking, Seeking, Knocking
The Narrow and Wide Gates
A Tree and Its Fruit
The Wise and Foolish Builders

When Christ speaks of obedience to his teachings... we have to find out what he is teaching in that context.

That's my take. Thoughts anyone?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I found something along these lines the other day. A pastor I know preached from the following passage:

Matthew 7:24-27
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The preacher began to preach against television, preach the dress code, all the "Pentecostal Traditions", telling us, "We are not to just hear what Jesus commands, but we are to do them!"

I walked away feeling spiritually starved and began to read the passage in context. This is the closing of Christ's "Sermon on the Mount". Christ had just given what might be called the most comprehensive body of Christian teaching recorded in the Gospels. All the subjects addressed are found beginning in chapter 5 and continuing through chapter 7. The subjects include:

The Beatitudes
Being Salt and Light
The Fulfillment of the Law
Murder and Hatred
Adultery and Lust
Divorce and Remarriage
Oaths
An Eye for an Eye
Love for Enemies
Giving to the Needy
Prayer
Fasting
Treasures in Heaven
Do Not Worry
Judging Others
Asking, Seeking, Knocking
The Narrow and Wide Gates
A Tree and Its Fruit
The Wise and Foolish Builders

When Christ speaks of obedience to his teachings... we have to find out what he is teaching in that context.

That's my take. Thoughts anyone?

I actually like that, you know i really didnt realize all that he taught in such a short span, but how great indepth he went to show parrells and paint pictures in the minds of the listeners

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by acerrak

im just being honest, cause of your attitude, its really hard for me to take you serious. the emotcons and your remarks are childish.




and yes i pinpointed that.

I have to agree, but not just on him but us all. There is too much "You" or comments directed AT a person with pejoratives and not enough comments ON the topic or what people are actually saying

[Rob McKee]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

You guys that dont like scriptures that contradict your mindset always play the "out of context card." I try to live by the Bible and do my best to obey what is written therein rather than deceive myself thinking I will be saved while I hear the word but decline to do it. (James 1:23)

You still said "Look it doesn't matter how much any disects any verse because there is always another verse that seems to contradict it."
Not really. It still pays to rightly devide the Word. If you still dont want to, I can understand why.

You mentioned that "grace (always) trumps suggestions." I cringe to think what you may privatly interprit as "suggestions." Holliness? Repentance? Flee fornication? No matter; without holiness no man shall see the Lord. If someone is foolish enough to make that optional, just so the flesh isnt too uncomfortable, they need a psych eval. But grace will make up the differance if we choose to willingly disreguard scriptures? Is this also what you believe? If so, you are farther gone that I thought. I truly hope not. No more sacrifice for sin....open shame...continue in sin that grace may abound?God forbid...these are just a few of the scriptures that come to mind.

STILL:ALL SCRIPTURE IS...PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE...REPROOF...INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. If you choose to not profit from it, fine. If you choose not to be isntructed by it, that too is your decision. You are not the first or last to exemplify these (out of context, no doubt) scriptures that were also given by inspiration of God: Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Pro 5:12 ...How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof; Pro 15:10 [10] Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.Isa 28:9 [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?...

Continue believing, if you do, that not all scripture holds the same weight and that the work of grace negates the importance of obediance, but you didnt learn that from His Word. (Eph 4:20: But ye have not so learned Christ) <-- a little out of context. There, I gave ya one.

Take care. I have enjoyed the conversation.

ps: Friend, please don't forget or ignore what God said..."all scripture."

[/conversation]

Good Post Bro Richmond...I'm with you.
Take note of all who argue the loudest...most were raised hearing and believing this, but had a bad experience with pastor who they felt judged them (and probably did). Many have been deeply hurt and cannot release it. You will never argue them into a change. We must pray that God gives us a "love for truth"... We must love people but NEVER more than we love truth.