The Pre-Existence Of The Son

[mrnbcox]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I understand The Son existed in God's mind,but I don't see God manifesting Himself in flesh before the incarnation.

Are you asking of the flesh in general? The flesh began in the birthing of the new testement. The spirit in the flesh pre-existed time

[Scott Hutchinson]

Eskimo pie does it taste pretty good ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by mrnbcox

Are you asking of the flesh in general? The flesh began in the birthing of the new testement. The spirit in the flesh pre-existed time

I was thinking Of the word becoming flesh at the virgin birth.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Passages such as Philippians 2 indicate that the Father and Son existed before the incarnation.



As the verse says, the Son "emptying himself" refers to his laying aside his heavenly glory and coming to earth as a man.

And there are other Scriptures, like the one you mentioned earlier in the thread.



I don't see how someone can come to any other conclusion but that both the Father and Son existed as separate "persons" before the Incarnation. I realize that the English word "persons" has some negative connotations, but it's the most precise word we can come up with.

I totally agree with the preexistence of Father and Son (as God Himself).

I prefer persona over persons in modern language.

[Jay]

I picked the one that I disagreed with least, but did not really want to comment on what I think and so entirely choose to duck this issue, as it goes a lot deeper than I care to go late at night. I will probably post later more on it later.

There is only one God, made manifest in Jesus Christ who was both Son of God and Son of Man. Then Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross, died, rose again, and after ascending into Heaven sent back His Spirit to indwell all those who would believe and obey.

I decided to leave my first statement up so that you could see that I changed my mind in mid-stream instead of editing myself as I normally would. Like I said, it is late.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Wow... we have a plethora of thoughts and we're pretty much evenly dividided on most possibilities... even the one I didn't include.

Does Brother Epley (and other UC's ) still come around?

I'd like to know where he stands.

For those who have stated that the song existed before his humanity as the Father...

What preincarnate purpose did the son serve?
In what capacity did the son operate preincarnate?

I believe the Son only existed in the mind and plan of God before incarnation.
This day have I begotten thee.......................happened twice at His birth and His resurrection NOT in eternity past.

[jfrog]

There is a phrase I have heard applied to geometry and it is quite mind boggling to some. "A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is NOT a square." For a square to be a rectangle it must have all the properties of a rectangle i.e. right angles and 2 sets of parallel sides that are perpendicular. But a rectangle is not a square because it doesn't meet the definition of having all sides the same length.

This is similar to someone saying they believe "The Son" is God. In order for the Son to be God the Son must meet all the properties of being God. One property which God possesses is eternal existence. Therefore if one truly says "The Son" is God one must believe "The Son" existed for all eternity. And if "The Son" existed for all eternity then surely "The Son" prexisted the birth of Jesus.

However, I think many oneness pentecostals don't believe that "The Son" is God. I think they believe that God is "The Son" and that "The Son" is NOT God. As demonstrated earlier with squares and rectangles there is a difference.

[Michael The Disciple]

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (Phil. 2:5-8 ESV).

As the verse says, the Son "emptying himself" refers to his laying aside his heavenly glory and coming to earth as a man.

But that verse does not mention the Son. It mentions "Christ" Jesus. And it mentions the "form" of God.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Did someone in fact say that? I would say He existed as God - the Word, but not really as the Father to the Son...

Praxeas said "I think the Son pre-existed being human as God Himself" and you replied "Stated perfectly" along with others who agreed as well.

If the son pre-existed as God himself... was he God the son? How did he exist?

You mention persona before... did he have his own personality or consciousness?

I find that statement very confusing when one delves into the ramifications thereof. God... in my mind... is the Father. God the Father. So it was a bit of an assumption upon Praxeas' statement to use the term Father in my statement but in my thinking that is, basically, what was said.

Your answer to the questions above will go far in helping me get a picture of what Praxeas, yourself & others meant when the statement was made.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Amanah

If the Church was predestined before the foundation of the world, then God planned to come to earth and live among us and redeem us before creation. He planned to offer up the body of Christ so that Jesus could be the first born of many children of God. God is a Spirit; there is only one Spirit, and Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.

From beginning to end... agreed.