Head covering

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I would LOVE to debate Esaias on head coverings. I DO believe that it would be a learning experience that would benefit the community and edify the church. We could slice and dice scripture as well as research the history and culture of the early church. It would be great fun.

The trouble is . . .

In regards to the head covering . . .

I think he is mostly right.

So I don’t have much incentive to debate him.

I’m stocking up on popcorn though, in case someone else decides to take him up on his offer.

This guy already beat you to it.

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

To understand the scripture on head coverings one must consider the audience. Christian women and cultures were struggling with the equality given in the body of Christ. In Corinth you found those of the diaspora who still followed their Hebrew customs. Yet they were also exposed to the disgraceful conduct of the Corinthian women cropping their hair, after the manner of the priestesses of Aphrodite. The extreme opposite were the Maenad priestesses of Bacchus. Who performed pagan rites with their hair hanging loose weaved with ivy-wreaths around their heads, and often handled or wore snakes. Paul had to address how Christian women were to act in public assemblies of the Church at Corinth. He used the distinction between sexes; with women having longer hair and men having shorter hair. Teaching that though they we are all equal in Christ, we still have differing roles in the Body of Christ. He used these parallelisms between nature and culture to emphasize the operational order that congregations should reflect in their public meetings.

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 16 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

This verse uses aischrón; neuter noun, which means shame, base, dishonorable. Paul knew those of the diaspora would understand the parallelism between Hebrew terms for "veil" (radid), and "subjection" (radad). The cutting off the hair is used by Isaiah as an allegory of the entire destruction of a people by divine retribution. To both Hebrew and Greek cultures the veil is a token of modesty and of subordination to her husband. This ancient custom of modesty and subjection can be found in the Hebrew culture all the way back to Genesis.

Isa 7:20 In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard.

Gen 24:65 KJV - 65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, (It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.)

Paul was fundamentally teaching that a woman's long hair is her natural covering and her glory. To have all her hair shaved off was a mark of a prostitute or adulteress in their society, which is a shame to her husband. Paul’s allegory is delivering a broader message to all believers on public meetings. Though we are equal in Christ there is still a natural order needed to be observed. The question is not whether a woman should observe having long hair or wearing a veil. Rather are women and men in subjection to our Heavenly Father’s Holy Spirit. Galatians teaches born again believers what we should pursue to attain true Holiness.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Selah

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I would LOVE to debate Esaias on head coverings. I DO believe that it would be a learning experience that would benefit the community and edify the church. We could slice and dice scripture as well as research the history and culture of the early church. It would be great fun.

The trouble is . . .

In regards to the head covering . . .

I think he is mostly right.

So I don’t have much incentive to debate him.

I’m stocking up on popcorn though, in case someone else decides to take him up on his offer.

You could still take up the con side, do your due diligence, argue against your own personally held beliefs, present the strongest case you can, and see where it leads, but you'd have to bring your "A" game, not just lob easy gimmee's to Esaias for his own personal Home Run Derby.

[Amanah]

I need clarification with this topic, probably from Bro Esaias.
Also Bro Benincasa brought the issue to light in one of our current posts

There is a teaching that I just heard stating that a woman's head should be covered with an official cloth covering when addressing a congregation (leading prayer or prophesying/teaching) as a symbol showing that she has approval to address the congregation by the elders of the church.

As Bro Benincasa pointed out in a recent thread, this castrates the husband, correct?

[Amanah]

Actually, I know the answer, I'm just being an idiot.

Timothy 2:12 women not to teach men
Titus 1:5-9 Elder the husband of one wife
1 Corinthians 11 God/Christ/Man/Woman
Ephesians 5:23 Husband the head of the wife, not the Pastor

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I need clarification with this topic, probably from Bro Esaias.
Also Bro Benincasa brought the issue to light in one of our current posts

There is a teaching that I just heard stating that a woman's head should be covered with an official cloth covering when addressing a congregation (leading prayer or prophesying/teaching) as a symbol showing that she has approval to address the congregation by the elders of the church.

As Bro Benincasa pointed out in a recent thread, this castrates the husband, correct?

Well, I’ve never heard it that way.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Well, I’ve never heard it that way.

Me either, it's a completely new teaching as far as I know.

And in this teaching:

Because of the angels, means the elders of the church.

1 Corinthians 11:10
King James Version
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

ἄγγελος ággelos, ang'-el-os; from ἀγγέλλω aggéllō (probably derived from G71; compare G34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:—angel, messenger.

.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I need clarification with this topic, probably from Bro Esaias.
Also Bro Benincasa brought the issue to light in one of our current posts

There is a teaching that I just heard stating that a woman's head should be covered with an official cloth covering when addressing a congregation (leading prayer or prophesying/teaching) as a symbol showing that she has approval to address the congregation by the elders of the church.

As Bro Benincasa pointed out in a recent thread, this castrates the husband, correct?

The only approval she needs, is God’s, and her husband. The elders deal with the husband. 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 is dealing with a woman submitted to her husband.

[Amanah]

One thought is that women should have their head covered to demonstrate that they are under the authority of the male leadership of the church:

https://enduringword.com/bible-comme...orinthians-11/

d. Who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered: For a woman to do this said by her actions “I am not under authority here.” And because God has established that the head of woman is man (1 Corinthians 11:3), it dishonors the men (her head) for a woman to say this by refusing to wear a head covering.

i. Under these words of Paul, women are free to pray or prophesy, but only when as they demonstrate that they are under the authority of the male leadership of the church.

e. That is one and the same as if her head was shaved: If a woman refuses to demonstrate being under authority, she may as well be shaved of her hair (let her also be shorn). In some ancient cultures, the shaving of a woman’s head was the punishment given to an adulteress.

i. Having a woman’s head shorn or shaved meant different things in different cultures. In Jewish law, it was the mark of adultery (Numbers 5:11-31). In the Greek world, it could be the mark of a prostitute or lesbian.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

One thought is that women should have their head covered to demonstrate that they are under the authority of the male leadership of the church:

https://enduringword.com/bible-comme...orinthians-11/

d. Who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered: For a woman to do this said by her actions “I am not under authority here.” And because God has established that the head of woman is man (1 Corinthians 11:3), it dishonors the men (her head) for a woman to say this by refusing to wear a head covering.

i. Under these words of Paul, women are free to pray or prophesy, but only when as they demonstrate that they are under the authority of the male leadership of the church.

e. That is one and the same as if her head was shaved: If a woman refuses to demonstrate being under authority, she may as well be shaved of her hair (let her also be shorn). In some ancient cultures, the shaving of a woman’s head was the punishment given to an adulteress.

i. Having a woman’s head shorn or shaved meant different things in different cultures. In Jewish law, it was the mark of adultery (Numbers 5:11-31). In the Greek world, it could be the mark of a prostitute or lesbian.

Wives submit yourselves to your own husband .

That pretty much puts this puppy to bed.

The elders are to be the husband of one wife 1 Timothy 3:2. Not any wife of any other man Ephesians 5:21. Let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband 1 Corinthians 7:2. This isn't rocket science. This portion of scripture come chapters ahead of Paul's discussion on headship and headcoverings. Ministerial elders are no where mentioned in the chapter. Let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Why? Simply to avoid fornication. The more we look into this the simpler it becomes. Males preach to males, the younger women, have elder women to ask questions and see their example. But, the marriage bed shall not be defiled Hebrews 13:4.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Me either, it's a completely new teaching as far as I know.

And in this teaching:

Because of the angels, means the elders of the church.

1 Corinthians 11:10
King James Version
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

ἄγγελος ággelos, ang'-el-os; from ἀγγέλλω aggéllō (probably derived from G71; compare G34) (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:—angel, messenger.

.

I've heard that view before, many years ago, in fact.

The problem is, elders are never directly called angels in the New Testament. A much more parsimonious interpretation is to accept at face value what Paul has written:

Women ought to wear a head covering, i.e. veil their hair when praying or prophesying, on account of the angels, that is, the supernatural forces at play in and amongst the various divine beings or elohim of the spirit world.