McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Love and forgiveness does not mean sin is to be tolerated. Jesus Himself gave instructions for excommunication.

As exampled by His treatment of Judas and dinners / fellowship with sinners? "To Be Like Jesus...." You're probably right.

Please share that teaching. I must have skipped sunday school that day lol

Hope you are not referring to dusting feet and leaving town after rejected ministry. Doing nothing to someone and walking away is not quite the same thing as assassinating them after you kick them (except in PACEs)

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Are you seriously offering a story about throwing someone out and prohibiting anyone from contact with him as a lesson about love and forgiveness?

Isn't treatment of someone like that exactly what Jesus warned against? I know you probably did not pick up logic from those PACEs I am guessing you were likely educated from but good grief.

smh

There is a biblical example for how to deal with conflict between believers. This is what my father followed. If you have issue, it is with God's Word. My father gave him opportunity, but the man did not listen or stop what he was doing.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

As exampled by His treatment of Judas and dinners / fellowship with sinners? "To Be Like Jesus...." You're probably right.

Please share that teaching. I must have skipped sunday school that day lol

Hope you are not referring to dusting feet and leaving town after rejected ministry. Doing nothing to someone and walking away is not quite the same thing as assassinating them after you kick them (except in PACEs)

As a muslim, you have no role in this debate. You cannot grasp the issue, as shown by your twisting of Jesus' treatment of Judas and His dining with sinners.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by n david

As a muslim, you have no role in this debate. You cannot grasp the issue, as shown by your twisting of Jesus' treatment of Judas and His dining with sinners.

Wasnt taking to you in that post. I was talking to you in the earlier post that seems to be such an insurmountable obstacle you cant seem to answer it.

I can grasp this issue quite well and twisted nothing. Go get your daddy, sign him up, and I'll tell him the same thing.

<seems i tossed a little salt and it landed on a cut> nailed you again didnt I. First the passport, now the PACEs. I have you neatly categorized and it aint flattering doc.

As to your example, it is required by all of us to follow the law. When the law is broken then we (all) are accountable under it. Neither ministers nor churches are above the law and there are more examples of this in the bible (many) of this then there are of covering it up (none).

[n david]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

So, it is wrong to sue a brother for any reason? That is the exact thought the Catholic Church had about its child "indiscretion" didn't it? The church became independent from the UPCI. UPCI is in a backslider state if you hear the undertone of the reason this church left it. The 2 sides and the truth is a good one. Facts Are part of truth. This story has garnered a lot of attention in McMinnville and they will run a follow up I would assume. I am on the side of right not wrong. I would choose the facts over opinion that is why I read the file. Never take a mans word as fact without validation on something as important as this. Doing the right thing is no reason for disfellowship.

Read the Bible and tell me if it's okay to sue a brother. It's not a rule the UPC made, or one that I made. Both Jesus and Paul taught and wrote against it. You say you're on the side of right, not wrong. If this is true, then you cannot possibly support this lawsuit against another believer.

Even if the Bible wasn't clearly against it, I would still say a believer shouldn't take another believer to court over internal church discipline as a matter of allowing a precedent to be set. Again, I doubt the court will rule in this man's favor because of prior court rulings refusing to get involved with internal church disputes. But should a court choose to ignore that, and get involved in an internal dispute, it will be a bad precedent.

I do agree one should value facts and evidence over one's word.

As a man who grew up in the home of a Pastor, and who has served under several Pastors, I will say the decision to disfellowship or excommunicate someone is not taken lightly. Especially if the person has been in the church for a while and has friends and roots in the church. In the cases I've known, the Biblical pattern for disputes was followed, and only after the person refused was he/she removed from fellowship. Removal was always a last resort, and only because of continued discord.

Again, there has been no proof or evidence provided against the Pastor which would show he was wrong for kicking the man out of the church.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Wasnt taking to you in that post. I was talking to you in the earlier post that seems to be such an insurmountable obstacle you cant seem to answer it.

I did answer it. You either missed it or ignored it.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I can grasp this issue quite well and twisted nothing. Go get your daddy, sign him up, and I'll tell him the same thing.

No, you don't understand the issue. You do twist scripture and what Jesus taught, which has been proven time and again by others in this forum.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

<seems i tossed a little salt and it landed on a cut> nailed you again didnt I. First the passport, now the PACEs. I have you neatly categorized and it aint flattering doc.

No cut for any figurative salt to land in. Not sure what you're trying to say about the passport or "PACE's," nor do you have me "categorized." What's not flattering are the dishonest posts you've made, the lies you've told on here against ministers, and your inability to understand or follow Biblical teaching.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

As exampled by His treatment of Judas and dinners / fellowship with sinners? "To Be Like Jesus...." You're probably right.

Please share that teaching. I must have skipped sunday school that day lol

Hope you are not referring to dusting feet and leaving town after rejected ministry. Doing nothing to someone and walking away is not quite the same thing as assassinating them after you kick them (except in PACEs)

What do you mean by pace's? Are you speaking of christian families who are homeschooling? I hope you are not slurring people's education.

[Walks_in_islam]

X

Originally Posted by n david

I did answer it. You either missed it or ignored it.


No, you don't understand the issue. You do twist scripture and what Jesus taught, which has been proven time and again by others in this forum.


No cut for any figurative salt to land in. Not sure what you're trying to say about the passport or "PACE's," nor do you have me "categorized." What's not flattering are the dishonest posts you've made, the lies you've told on here against ministers, and your inability to understand or follow Biblical teaching.

Dunno you seemed a little upset.

I have spoken no lies against your ministers and their systematic cover ups of the spiritual abuse that they routinely dole out. There are many court cases, ruled on and in the record, on issues just like this one. This one is just added to the list.

All victimizers have the same opinion that you have, the courts have no place interfering with their abuse. Which just puts you in a long, boring line. So give it up. When you break the law then you answer to it. Let the courts settle it and if this man is innocent then so be it.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

What do you mean by pace's? Are you speaking of christian families who are homeschooling? I hope you are not slurring people's education.

Homeschooler child abuse cases was another thread. They also feel, while clutching their "to bring up a child" book, that the courts have no business interfering with their beliefs.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Dunno you seemed a little upset.

No, not upset. I just don't believe, being a muslim, you have a role in this debate.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I have spoken no lies against your ministers and their systematic cover ups of the spiritual abuse that they routinely dole out. There are many court cases, ruled on and in the record, on issues just like this one. This one is just added to the list.

Not talking about this. I'm talking about the lies against Stoneking and Wilson.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

All victimizers have the same opinion that you have, the courts have no place interfering with their abuse. Which just puts you in a long, boring line. So give it up. When you break the law then you answer to it. Let the courts settle it and if this man is innocent then so be it.

There are laws which cover the sexual abuse you're talking about. I'm not against that. You're trying to change the issue.

No law was broken here, so your example doesn't apply. Nice try though.

There's a huge difference between a minister breaking the law and committing sexual abuse, and the courts taking the issue, and some angry, bitter ex parishioner suing the Pastor because he was excommunicated.

Unlike muslim sharia law, US law offers the First Amendment covering of freedom of religion and its free exercise.