McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pneuman

David Bernard estimates that 85% of the brethren at the merger were solid on the Acts 2:38 new birth message. His logic in here:

https://www.facebook.com/davidkberna...tal_comments=3

You will notice he also recognizes what he calls the 2/3s or 2/3ers, these were brethren who still adhered to the old saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost doctrine. We have at least two of these men here in our district. They also baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is Jesus name! Heresy of heresies!!! I am not a world traveler like yourself so I can only say what I have heard. The districts that I have heard tend to have more of the 2/3ers are (I may not hit it perfect) Wisconsin, N. and S. Dakota, Idaho, some in the Carolinas, Texas, and I know of a couple in California. They do exist despite your omniscience.

His reference to 2/3s was this: "David Gray said practically all the PAJC and 2/3 (two-thirds) (67%) of the PCI believed the new-birth doctrine..." It was used as a fraction, not a sort of a nickname.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I am not sure what you mean by the Romans 10 nonsense.

Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

I do not believe confession is salvation. This is not what Peter preached at Pentecost, nor is it what the UPCI or other Apostolics believe.

This "Sinner's Prayer," just confess with your mouth and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and you're saved is nonsense. It's found nowhere in Acts of the Apostles.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

Have you read that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents? Strange behavior I would say for somebody who is not saved, or at the very least we should recognize this as a major step.

Please read the whole verse, the key is the comparison which it gives.

"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

On one hand, you have a sinner who recognizes the sin which is in him and he repents; On the other hand, you have ninety-nine self-righteous persons who feel no need of repentance. They feel they are justified in themselves.

This is why there is joy in heaven. Because the sinner recognized his need of repentance.

Yes, this is a major step, but salvation does not come at repentance alone.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I am not saying I disbelieve the Acts 2:38 and new birth, I just don't think it is as cut and dry as many believe it to be.

It's pretty plain. Peter took a while to get there, but once he was asked what needed to be done, he wasted no words doing so.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

It is also that God left the Ethiopian eunuch unsaved by taking Phillip away in the Spirit before He received the HG baptism, and strange that Paul left the jailer unsaved by only baptizing him.

You're assuming too much here. Don't assume that because the Bible doesn't explicitly state they received the Holy Ghost that they didn't or were saved without.

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I think salvation is more a relationship process than it is a specific event. And I believe this relationship process contains several events that are all important to the process, including repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.

This is a problem with modern christianity. The new birth is an event, which includes repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It's not a long process. Nowhere in the Acts of the Apostles will you find anything which suggests a long process.

[Esaias]

Godsdrummer, I can certainly grasp what you are saying, I just happen to disagree with it. When a guy chooses not to buy something, it ain't always cause he don't have the money...

But, since you think numerous parts of scripture are not authoritative, based on what you think is "currently relevant", we really can't go any further, since I happen to think all of scripture is relevant.

[Esaias]

RE this thread: what a mess... all around.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

All of this talk about, forgiveness, towards your brother, yet your post don't show the same forgiveness you expect HH to give. All I see is you defending not only a bad pastor, but the very position you aspire to.

Defending a bad pastor? I don't know the guy, do you? GD with all due respect, do you know him? There is no defending any preacher, just pointing out that an individual joined the forum to drag around an individual you or I don't know anything about. Bad pastor? Where did you get that from? Turn the other cheek is followed by not suing someone. It doesn't get any easier than that. Every post from HH, has something to do with his fresh wounds.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Your comment about the early church not having leadership problems, because the apostles just went around and kicked butt.

I said the early church didn't have leadership problems because the apostles kicked butt? Where did I say that the early church didn't have leadership problems? I said that one man leadership wasn't a problem until Diotrephes, it also speaks of other individuals but they look as if they worked as a team. The apostles and eldership took care of everything in house and didn't take each other before secular law systems. Read my post again below now that I have clarified the position.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yet, one man leadership wasn't found in Acts 15:20, because it wasn't an issue until Diotrephes was φιλοπρωτεύω (one who is ambitious to be first) started to speak against the other "elders." Also throwing out any opposition to his ministerial leadership. Back in those days an apostle just came by and kicked some hind quarters, no one was sued, but the apostle took care of the situation.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Only shows that you refuse to accept that the leadership of the early church did work together as servants but you think they welded control.

Really? Please explain how you came to this conclusion?

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

The more these debates go the more I see the ungodly spirits come out. Your statement "you guys are trinitarians" speaks volumes to me.

We believe in the Eternal God-head who has revealed Himself as ONE God existing in THREE persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; distinguishable but indivisible. Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe/

Sound like Trinitarians to me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Wow, you just past judgment without even knowing.

I went to the website http://www.citybiblechurch.org/locations-times

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe/

I just didn't decide to spurt out they are Trinitarians.

I looked at this....

We believe in the Eternal God-head who has revealed Himself as ONE God existing in THREE persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; distinguishable but indivisible. Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14

Also this.....

We believe in the necessity of water baptism by immersion in the name of the Eternal Godhead in order to fulfill the command of Christ. Matthew 28:19; Acts 2:38-39; 19:1-6

Hey, maybe they are trying to blend and camouflage to bring in more customers? http://www.citybiblechurch.org/give/

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I just went to their Web page. They believe in One God. They Baptize in Jesus name. Maybe YOU went to their page as well and saw happy families without your type of standards.

Sadly HH, you won't win.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Dont compair yourselves amongst yourselves is a scripture that isn't obeyed.
Small little legalist world of OP.

Wow, HH, I suggest you go read 2nd Corinthians 10.

It looks like you only know that verse by what you were TOLD from the pulpit.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Really, I couldn't care less if Bill reads this thread and by all accounts most likely has.

Not Bill, his lawyers. Does James Goings lawyers know that he came on a public forum (while he is suing for defamation) to post in a thread that is nothing but defaming the defendants in a court case that they are working on? I mean, how old are you people?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

As for you opinion on any of this matter it means nothing.

No doubt about that.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

You seem to be a ministerial apologist anyway. You lack experiance in a matter such as this. Almost ignerant.

I have been there, and done that, but I just don't bleed all over everyone.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

You and bill would get along well I bet.

Probably not.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

So enjoy the little world you live in.

I do.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I am free to enjoy the big world of OP that was denied me for years.

I have heard this from Charismatics, Hindus, Mormons, divorced couples, people leaving behind a one life to make a life change. It is like someone who was on drugs since they were a teen, when they finally get off the drugs and addiction they start at the point where they became addicted. HH, my question would be why were you there in the first place?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Bill has already been bashing the preacher for starting a church here in McMinnville. Hahahah I love it.

Really?

And I'm the bad guy?

Whatever.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Not Bill, his lawyers. Does James Goings lawyers know that he came on a public forum (while he is suing for defamation) to post in a thread that is nothing but defaming the defendants in a court case that they are working on? I mean, how old are you people?



No doubt about that.

I have been there, and done that, but I just don't bleed all over everyone.


Probably not.



I do.



I have heard this from Charismatics, Hindus, Mormons, divorced couples, people leaving behind a one life to make a life change. It is like someone who was on drugs since they were a teen, when they finally get off the drugs and addiction they start at the point where they became addicted. HH, my question would be why were you there in the first place?


Really?
Yes really I am going to have a church right here.

And I'm the bad guy?
Your words not min

Whatever.

Why was I there.... Great question that is. Well, God led me there. I was the second to the chief of all sinners. Understand I was a terrible human being before God. I Will not spew it up here. Some traits still linger tho (God's unfinished work)
I sat under Bill since 1999. I went to Bible college and was used in the ministry.
I believe in One God Jesus name baptism and the indwelling of The Holy Ghost. I was as drunk with the juice he gave out as everyone else that is still there. Understand the people are great people some I know of feel how I felt(trapped). It is not the people it is the man that stands behind the pulpit. Some are steadfast for him and that is fine. I'm not their judge like they are mine. I hope they make it and rejoyce with me. I do pray for them a lot.
.
Something changed years ago I noticed it. People left, people got booted, I didn't question because it was sin to. I cut them off and made sure they new not to come around just as he wished.
I studied and lined everything up to the word. God is not the author of confusion for sure so I had to study. Then the Jim goings situation happens and that was it. His wife is a saint of 31 years. A strong women that fears God. I went to him and her. I plain as day asked if Jim did anything that was stated over the pulpit( I already knew). She is a strong women and if he had she would have said so and would have set him up right. For them to Move her out was horrifying to me.
I didnt leave then. I had a meeting with Bill Davies thanksgiving service about the BOLI issue(great night for that). He makes the rules so I went. I brought scripture and was prepared with how I felt and how God made me feel.
After his wife laughed and scoffed at me I knew the answer. I asked that they bring 1 just 1 accuser to the meeting and they agreed they had none.
You see I know my place when it comes to authority. Military and law enforcement taught me that.
I stayed as long as I did for all the wrong reasons. Only do you see that after you leave a situation like that.
I stayed for my friends and family. I knew if I left they would be like I was to so many others. I am so sorry for that now. I was right they disfellowshipped me unofficially of course. Remember no accusers.
So my family won't leave and I won't make them. God is in control of that. I don't talk to them about my new church and I put no ill thoughts in their minds. I will not give them a reason.
So God worked a miracle to get me to live for him. It seems that he needed to pound down this clay and start over.
That's ok tho. I'm better off now than I was ever before.

Remember, you asked the question.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I went to the website http://www.citybiblechurch.org/locations-times

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe/

I just didn't decide to spurt out they are Trinitarians.

I looked at this....

We believe in the Eternal God-head who has revealed Himself as ONE God existing in THREE persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; distinguishable but indivisible. Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14

Also this.....

We believe in the necessity of water baptism by immersion in the name of the Eternal Godhead in order to fulfill the command of Christ. Matthew 28:19; Acts 2:38-39; 19:1-6

Hey, maybe they are trying to blend and camouflage to bring in more customers? http://www.citybiblechurch.org/give/

Yeah, I saw the same thing. I don't know how anyone could read their belief statement, and not see trinitarianism.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Why was I there.... Great question that is. Well, God led me there.

God led you there in 1999? I think you are more hurt, than bitter. But hurt turns to anger, and when you keep the anger going and find an audience to cheer you on, then it turns to bitterness. By that point it starts to fester and then turns to gangrene. Yet, this gangrene isn't the type that just kills you, but all those around you. You are supposed to carry your cross, not struggle and bleed on it. Let me say this, but when you have a problem with someone, YOU are the ONLY ONE with the problem. It messes you up, it gets uploaded in your mind. The other individual[s] may not know, or even care about the issues that caused you to feel upset and angry. The only way to get free is to forgive them by loving them. 1999 was a long time ago, not every day you were with these preachers was Jones Town. You still have good memories, remember God led you there? HH, you got to be the bigger kid in the sand box, no one else on the planet. Brother, if it was easy, then everyone would be doing it, and God didn't have to robe Himself in flesh to show us how to git it done.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

So my family won't leave and I won't make them. God is in control of that.

This is an interesting comment, but why are you here beating the drum against this church to a bunch of strangers who are perfectly comfortable in the Apostolic One God Jesus name movement? Yet, you are leaving your family members, people who mean way more to you then us in a situation you believe to be harmful? Still to top all that you are waiting for God to give them some sort of an epiphany? HH, again, you sound hurt and angry. Therefore you are still being controlled by those who upset you. Forgive them, cut off the gangrene, and allow Jesus Christ to take care of you and your old pastor. I'm not trying to say that you have to take long strolls on the beach with the guy, but when you and he meet around town you can genuinely feel peace, instead of sick to your gut.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I don't talk to them about my new church and I put no ill thoughts in their minds.

So, you come to a forum to put ill thoughts into the minds of strangers?
I realize you want to vent all this out, but in the Christian mind set the whole thing is counter productive. In the long run it will not help you, and your family won't get any revelation if you are not totally at peace with your old church.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I will not give them a reason.
So God worked a miracle to get me to live for him. It seems that he needed to pound down this clay and start over.

Wait, you are looking for God to pull rabbits out of the hat for your family, but won't wish the same thing for the pastor, his wife, his children, the other saints you left behind? Listen HH, wanting cookies and milk for our family members is easy, wanting them for people we have issues with is the miraculous.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

That's ok tho. I'm better off now than I was ever before.

Well, it is a wee hard to see in your postings. I understand you love Jim and his wife, but maybe you need to all have a prayer meeting about the litigations. Turn the other cheek is followed swiftly by allowing those who sue you take everything from you. Now that might make you'll happy if your old pastor emptied the church bank account, sold everything he owned and gave it all over to you and your friends. But that would make him the richer, and you not. You all might win, be able to have the church disbanded, the property sold, and have the preacher, his wife, with children thrown in the stocks in the village square. Where all the citizens of McMinnville can all take turns pelting them with rotten eggs, and tomatoes. But, in the years to come, won't make anything that happened any better. Time marches forward, and so does everyone else. Again, you are willing to allow your family to sit under the man's ministry without a peep from you, but you won't wish the same for the preacher?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Remember, you asked the question.

I sure did.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Yeah, I saw the same thing. I don't know how anyone could read their belief statement, and not see trinitarianism.

It looks like the typical blend and camouflage to bring a wider range of guests. Make the statement of faith vanilla, and generic so no one sees anything they can't easily recognize as mainstream.