How Important is Truth?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The Subjective Truth....
We live in a day and age where even Christians believe "what's truth for you may not be truth for me"...which makes God a rather subjective being. Is there an absolute truth?

And even more direct, on the subject of baptism, if baptism does not save how important is it to do it the way God wants it to be done Or does it matter?

Is there a right way to baptize or is that subjective? And if there was a right way in scriptures and a specific practice the early church went with...how important is that truth? Can you be saved and not have a love or desire to know the truth and obey it?

I don't find any scripture that teaches how to baptize except in Jesus name and call on the name of the Lord.When they were told to call on the name of the Lord it was the people who were going to be baptized who was suppose to call.I believe that is how a person is baptized in Jesus name is by calling on his name.Then it don't say that the preacher baptizing says anything and it don't say he puts them under the water.What i believe is every gets in the water and calles on the name and goes under the water.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

That is out of context. The text says that foolish talking and jesting are not convenient, not fitting [of a believer].
This passage does not say that they cause you to lose your inheritance. Verse 5 is the finishing thought of verse 3. No whoremonger, unclean, covetous, idolater hath any inheritance. The text does not read "no jester, foolish talker.." shall have no inheritance.

What's the differance when you do it ?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

That is out of context. The text says that foolish talking and jesting are not convenient, not fitting [of a believer].
This passage does not say that they cause you to lose your inheritance. Verse 5 is the finishing thought of verse 3. No whoremonger, unclean, covetous, idolater hath any inheritance. The text does not read "no jester, foolish talker.." shall have no inheritance.

Oh I see,just go ahead and pervert the word as most do.It's very convenient for you to just leave verse 4 out.foolish talking usually hurt people with joking and lying and jesting is joking telling lies.All liars have their part in the lake of fire.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Chan

But what exactly is the truth of water baptism? We may think that the way we do it in churches today is what the Bible says water baptism is but how do we know that it is? How did the first century church baptize? Did the preacher pronounce words over the person like some sort of magical incantation (the way preachers do it today - even in trinitarian churches)? Did the preacher (or whoever) simply operate in the authority of Jesus by baptizing people, without pronouncing words over them? Did the preacher (or others) dunk the person or did the person dunk himself? I think before you can find the answer to your questions, these kinds of questions need to be answered.

Chan,I ask you this three times now and I guess you just keep ignoring.Sure wish you would answer these questions..You tell us all how does a person calls on authority If it's not talking about calling on Jesus? Acts.2
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Tell us all how authority saves us ? Acts 4:[12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name (authority)under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

How are we saved here if Jesus is not important ? The word name (authority)is not hear.Acts16:[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Once again how does a person call on authority If it's not talking about calling on Jesus.? Acts.22
[16] And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name(authority) of the Lord

[Coonskinner]

Arrogant, pride-filled know-it-alls are going to hell.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Arrogant, pride-filled know-it-alls are going to hell.

Lead the way.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Lead the way.

I guess I forgot the smiley.

I just get amused sometimes.

[Coonskinner]

PS...if they don't repent.

Originally Posted by Joelel

Chan,I ask you this three times now and I guess you just keep ignoring.Sure wish you would answer these questions..You tell us all how does a person calls on authority If it's not talking about calling on Jesus? Acts.2
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

You are being deceptive here because you're trying to equate this with the "in the name of Jesus Christ" in Acts 2:38. The two do not go together. However, it is only by the authority of Jesus Christ that one has access to salvation.

Tell us all how authority saves us ? Acts 4:[12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name (authority)under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Without being authorized by Christ to do so, no one can come to Him.

How are we saved here if Jesus is not important ? The word name (authority)is not hear.Acts16:[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

THIS IS YOUR STRAW MAN ARGUMENT!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL BUT HIS NAME (which, by the way, is exactly the same as Joshua in the Old Testament) IS NOT SOME SORT OF MAGICAL INCANTATION. Those of you who insist on speaking a name over someone and insist that there is "power" in speaking that name, are engaging in witchcraft.

Once again how does a person call on authority If it's not talking about calling on Jesus.? Acts.22

[16] And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name(authority) of the Lord

See above.

[Praxeas]

Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
AMP Act 15:17 So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Called=epikaleomai
ep-ee-kal-eh'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1909 and G2564; to entitle; by implication to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.): - appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Jas 2:7 Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
Called=epikaleomai
ep-ee-kal-eh'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1909 and G2564; to entitle; by implication to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.): - appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.

NET bible Commentary

Grk "that was invoked over you," referring to their baptism in which they confessed their faith in Christ and were pronounced to be his own. To have the Lord's name "named over them" is OT imagery for the Lord's ownership of his people (cf. 2Ch_7:14; Amo_9:12; Isa_63:19; Jer_14:9; Jer_15:16; Dan_9:19; Act_15:17).

Zodhaites

epikaléō; contracted epikalṓ; fut. epikalésō, from epí (G1909), upon, and kaléō (G2564), to call, to surname. To call upon.

(I) To call upon for aid. In the NT, only in the mid., to call upon for aid in one's own behalf, to invoke, trans.

(A) Particularly of invocation addressed to Christ for aid (Act_7:59; see Sept.: 1Sa_12:17-18; 2Sa_22:7). Generally, to invoke, pray to, worship, spoken of God (Rom_10:12, Rom_10:14; 2Ti_2:22); followed by "the name" (Act_2:21; Act_9:14; Rom_10:13; Sept.: Gen_4:26; Gen_26:25; Deu_33:19; Joe_2:32); of Christ, followed by "the name," implying the Lord Jesus Christ (Act_9:21; Act_22:16; 1Co_1:2).
(B) In adjurations, imprecations, to call upon, invoke, as a witness (2Co_1:23).

(C) In a judicial sense, to call upon, invoke a higher tribunal or judge, i.e., to appeal to, e.g., Caesar (Act_25:11-12, Act_25:25; Act_26:32; Act_28:19). Followed by an inf. (Act_25:21, "demanding by appeal that" [a.t.]).

(II) To call a name upon, i.e., to name in addition, to surname with a duplicate acc. (Mat_10:25, UBS; Sept.: Num_21:3; Jdg_6:32, the simple verb ekálesen). In the mid., in 1Pe_1:17, "if ye call him your Father" (a.t. [cf. Jer_3:19]).

(A) Particularly in Mat_10:3; Luk_22:3; Act_1:23; Act_4:36; Act_10:5, Act_10:18, Act_10:32; Act_11:13; Act_12:12, Act_12:25; Act_15:22; Heb_11:16; Sept.: Dan_10:1; Mal_1:4.

(B) "Upon whom my name is called" (Act_15:17, i.e., who are called or surnamed by my name, implying property, relation, quoted from Amo_9:12; Jam_2:7; see 2Sa_12:28, the simple verb klēthḗ, Jer_14:9).

Some people call it witch craft and magic...others see it as simply obeying the word and doing what the Apostles did...regardless, they DID call ON the name and they called the name ON others for blessings. That's biblical